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tom in MO

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Okay, as I await valve replacement surgery (probably by the end of the month), let me query this. Because of previous dental surgeries, I now have a tendency to bite the hell out of my tongue or lower lip, which inevitably draws blood, and which also occasionally takes some time to stop. I'll ask my surgeon or cardiologist about this, but any suggestions here?
Not sure about what you want suggestions on. Your blood will take longer to coagulate, e.g. INR=2 means two times longer. You can get a tooth guard that will keep you from biting, they are used for people who grind their teeth.
 

Protimenow

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No, an INR=2 doesn't mean that it will take 2x LONGER to coagulate - it will just take twice as long (1+1 = 2, 1+2 (as in LONGER) = 3).

I know that people mess this thing up, but I'm pretty anal about these comparisons (and saying something like 'three times smaller' drives me up a wall. 1 times smaller probably means 0, so what can 3 times smaller possibly mean? I think they use it to mean 1/3, but, for this literal thinker, I have to stop and figure out what they mean). But, again, this is just me.
 

Protimenow

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If 1 times longer is twice as much, wouldn't 2 times longer be 3 times as much

I'm playing with words here, but to me LONGER is additive; AS MUCH is a comparison.

Twice as long is not the same as two times LONGER.

This is an weird quirk in language. Again - if one time longer is 2x (1 + 1), wouldn't two time longer equal 3x (1 + 2)?
 

pellicle

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If 1 times longer is twice as much, wouldn't 2 times longer be 3 times as much
mathematically one times as strong is the same thing, two times stronger is double or twice as much.

Adding 1 as a number is only significant in this because we are dealing with small integers, in PT a increase of 1 (say from 13 to 14 seconds) represents not much change, but an INR to move from 1 to 2 means that the numerator has doubled (so you've moved to 26 from 13 seconds).
 

Protimenow

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No -- when you say strongER, it's additive. It's not 1*1, it's 1+1.

If you say it's 1 time as strong, it's a kind of dumb way to say that it's unchanged.

If you say it's 2 times as strong, yes, that's double the strength. Also, if you say that an INR of 2.0 means it takes 2 times AS LONG to clot, you'd be correct.

BUT if you say it takes 2 times LONGER to clot, you're saying it takes 3 times as long. (Two plus One)

But, in spite of the math, this is, apparently how people say things.
 

Protimenow

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Yes. I can do basic math.

When a comparison is made - larger, longer, harder, etc., in my mind, it's an additive comparison. As Large, as long, as hard, etc. is multiplicative.
Twice as long means two times as long (2*1). Two times longer, to me, still means 3 times as long. (2+1)
 

pellicle

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Yes. I can do basic math.

When a comparison is made - larger, longer, harder, etc., in my mind, it's an additive comparison. As Large, as long, as hard, etc. is multiplicative.
Twice as long means two times as long (2*1). Two times longer, to me, still means 3 times as long. (2+1)
again, look at the formula ... its a ratio (one divided by the other) ... twice as long is 2 times the prothrombin time expressed as a ratio ... you are not looking at your maths properly.
 

cldlhd

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if you say so ... the formula is there and if you know how to do basic maths its plain
So you're basically saying that if you have 95 of something and add one, it's less of a change than if you had two and added one.... On a side note, I was looking to come down there and play some tennis. Do you have any advice?
 

pellicle

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So you're basically saying that if you have 95 of something and add one, it's less of a change than if you had two and added one
indeed.
But I clarified in the earlier post that in contrast to what Protime is saying why an increas of INR of one INR point is doubling which he claimed was not. That post is there to read.
 

tom in MO

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indeed.
But I clarified in the earlier post that in contrast to what Protime is saying why an increas of INR of one INR point is doubling which he claimed was not. That post is there to read.
Increasing an INR by 1 results in a doubling of coagulation time from normal, i..e. INR 1 (normal) to 2 (Onyx patient). However, increasing an INR to 3, means it takes 3 times longer for your blood to clot than for a normal at INR 1 and 1.5 times longer than an Onyx valve patient at INR of 2.

A person's INR is the multiplier for a comparison to a normal person: INR = 1 normal, INR = 2 takes 2 times longer to clot than a normal human, INR=3 takes 3 times longer.
 

Protimenow

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No -- if you increase an INR to 3, it means that it takes 3 times AS LONG to clot.

AS LONG and LONGER aren't the same thing.

If one times longer is twice as long, wouldn't two times longer be 3 times as long?
 

Protimenow

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Yes. This will keep it going.

Now - don't get me started with 'three times smaller.' If you really think about it, it makes no sense at all. (I know, when they say that, they mean 1/3 as large, but it still sounds mathematically weird).
 

slipkid

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The latest turns in this thread has made my right hand bleed twice as much whilst slapping my face in confusion and has made my schnozz two times longer than it was at the same time (see my avatar for demonstration)....โœŒ๐ŸคŸ๐Ÿค˜


Never realized there were so many smilies here to choose from...

๐ŸŽธ๐Ÿช๐Ÿ‹๐Ÿ‡๐Ÿ’‚โ€โ™‚๏ธโ›ฉ๐Ÿ“ญ๐Ÿ“ตโ–ถ๐ŸŽต๐Ÿ”Š:sleep:

(That means I play guitar while eating cookies which makes me fat like a whale but I ride horses anyway over to Buckingham Palace b4 going to Japan to pickup my mail without a cellphone so just push play and listen to music real loud and be done with it, no worries I sleep soundly anyway) o_O

P.S. I'm pretty sick right now and think the fever has warped my brain ๐Ÿค’
 

pellicle

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P.S. I'm pretty sick right now and think the fever has warped my brain ๐Ÿค’
if you have COVID ๐Ÿฆ  I hope you don't suffer too much

best wishes (which is plural and so may be twice as many as one wish)
:geek::poop:๐Ÿ‘บ๐Ÿคก๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ‘ก๐Ÿธ
this one is actually Eric the half a bee ๐Ÿ but was dissected bilaterally (you see)

and lastly its good to see that Jordan Peterson is represented with icons ๐Ÿ™
 

slipkid

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if you have COVID ๐Ÿฆ  I hope you don't suffer too much

best wishes (which is plural and so may be twice as many as one wish)
:geek::poop:๐Ÿ‘บ๐Ÿคก๐Ÿ‘…๐Ÿ‘ ๐Ÿ‘ก๐Ÿธ
this one is actually Eric the half a bee ๐Ÿ but was dissected bilaterally (you see)

and lastly its good to see that Jordan Peterson is represented with icons ๐Ÿ™
Thx Pellicle. Not sure if anyone gets your Eric half a bee joke other than me (Monty Python reference!!). You lost me on Jordan Peterson though, just googled him, some kind of weird psychiatrist with "rules for living"?.

I see this rule of his directly applies to me:
"Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not the useless person you are today"

(I used to be "somebody" with a decent job/benefits/respect but now am a nobody working in a shhithole factory)


Anyways this illness is tough but I've survived being sicker (and of course OHS like all here). The worse thing now is the fever. Takes so much out of me and am already exhausted to the max. Thankfully tylenol drops my temp 4 degrees and holds that way for a couple hours. I can take the cough and sinus pressure but the fever is turning me into a puddle of water.


I'm praying it IS COVID. (just had a PCR test through my DR office yesterday, after already setting one up at CVS drugstore but could not get one earlier than NEXT THURS that way). Waiting for the results...

If I have COVID then I am "immune" to the horrible work policies at my job regarding being sick. I am then (or at least according to their covid policy last year, but who knows what it is now, long story) I do not have to call off for the days I can't come in going fwd. I will not get penalty points for any of the days up to 2 weeks off (which will get me fired otherwise). I will get PAID my normal rate for all days that I miss up to 2 weeks. And I will not be allowed back until AFTER I have a neg covid test.

If it is NOT covid then I am in for a struggle. I would need a Dr note for the 2 days I missed so far without which I will get 3 total penalty points, which is "twice as many" as the 1.5 points I got for each single shift missed (bringing me to a total of 6 point now, at which 9 is dismissal with no discussion). But the Dr will not see me in person since I am a poss covid case (only televisit which I had & have requested a work absence note). Whether a note based on that televisit even counts in work's eyes is a diff story though. Then add to that if I do not feel well enough to go back to work for my 12 hour nightshifts next Tues/Wed in the freezing cold factory (which may be responsible for my sickness at this point in the first place) I would need an even more encompassing Dr note for those days I also miss, on top of which I then have to deal with massive hoop jumping and form filling through CIGNA insurance for FMLA and STD which is always a huge PITA and a battle requiring more energy than I even have at this point.

The life of a lowly factory worker is quite eye opening. Only ever had decent office jobs in big pharma b4 this, treated with respect, the exact opposite of this hellhole, and no one I know - nor me myself who now goes through it - can even understand this insanity. Sigh....Sorry for the rant...back to bed....
 

pellicle

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Thx Pellicle. Not sure if anyone gets your Eric half a bee joke other than me (Monty Python reference!!).
LOL ... but I knew you'd get it ;-)

You lost me on Jordan Peterson though, just googled him, some kind of weird psychiatrist with "rules for living"?.
those who hate him made a parody of him being like the evil red skull man from Captain America

1642258994885.png


Apparently this was countered by supporters with a lobster meme (I have one of the T-Shirts)

1642259118361.png


If you read the first chapter of his 12 Rules for life the discussion about the physio-psychology of lobsters is what's being referenced



;-)

I am not sure if anyone has said "I'm praying its COVID" before, but if you have COVID I sincerely hope its Omicron

PS: I read his book 12 Rules for live and find it very insightful. I'd been listening to his lectures now and then for a few years and his comments about the divisiveness of Jung had me go off and research Jung again. I'd only encountered Jung in a year of Psychology at Uni (when due to some personal difficulties I needed a break from the rigors of Biochem/Microbiol) and didn't really know the source material (I was an undergrad then).

So that rabbit hole ended up with me consuming the 10 volumes of The collected works of Carl Jung ... back in 2019. Wow ... that guy knows the mind.

Best Wishes
 
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