Covid Vaccines

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Superman

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first of two done today, I will report any other issues as they develop (INR, rash, bouts of sanity ... anything out of the ordinary).
I’m sure it’s a fairly specific set of circumstances, but isn’t Astra Zeneca the one that some patients were developing clotting issues? Maybe warfarin is a mitigating factor, but having a mechanical valve, that one is on my definite ‘no’ list. More because there are options here, so why take a chance. Anyway, feel free to respond if you’re still able to read this. It’s been almost 10 hours. Hope you’re okay!?! 😁
 

Chuck C

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isn’t Astra Zeneca the one that some patients were developing clotting issues?
Actually, it is the one that causes you to grow a horn and makes your manhood fall off. At least that was what I read from some doctor on the front line promoting ivermectin as an alternative 🤣
 

Humboldtgrrl

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"I am pissed with have to "incentivize" people to get vaxxed. To me the real incentive should be higher insurance premiums with possible caps on Covid coverage if you don't get vaxxed, without a valid verified medical exception. It is funny the amount of verification my wife had to go through to add me to her medical insurance, do the same for Covid vaccinations. And if they lie and are caught that should be fraud resulting in legal implications."

This is coming. Read an article today that insurance companies are working on setting this up as soon as full approval for the vaccine comes through.

Also today NYC requiring vaccine for entry into all restaurants, venues etc. I'm betting some other cities won't be far behind.
A business eZine recently promoted suing for damages, if an unvaxed person transmitted C19 your way. Probably tricky to prove in court, but maybe the potential of such litigation will encourage some to vax.
 

Chuck C

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An actual conversation that I had with a person at my MMA gym. Young guy, about 20yrs old, who is on the MMA team.

Him: Man, it's good to be back training again. I had to take a couple of weeks off because my mom died. But, training is like therapy for me so it is good that I'm back in again.

Me: What happened?

Him: Well, of course they are telling me that it was Covid, but I know that's a lie. That's just what their telling everyone now every time someone dies.

Me: How do you know it's a lie?

Him: Dude, have you ever listened to Alex Jones? I probably listen to him and this other guy for about 6 hours a day. They lay it all out, you should check it out.

Me: I have watched him before. I think he gets pretty loose with the facts.

Him: Yeah, I know he does kind of sensationalize, but I think most of what he is saying is accurate. I mean, look around at everything.

Whatever that means. I really did not want to get too much further in the conversation, with him still dealing with losing his mom. But, she clearly died of Covid and he will likely never accept this. Instead, he doubled down on conspiracy. I've known him a couple of years and he's actually a really nice young man, just got sucked in following misinformation, coming from people who should know better

She was in her mid 40s, BTW.
 

cldlhd

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An actual conversation that I had with a person at my MMA gym. Young guy, about 20yrs old, who is on the MMA team.

Him: Man, it's good to be back training again. I had to take a couple of weeks off because my mom died. But, training is like therapy for me so it is good that I'm back in again.

Me: What happened?

Him: Well, of course they are telling me that it was Covid, but I know that's a lie. That's just what their telling everyone now every time someone dies.

Me: How do you know it's a lie?

Him: Dude, have you ever listened to Alex Jones? I probably listen to him and this other guy for about 6 hours a day. They lay it all out, you should check it out.

Me: I have watched him before. I think he gets pretty loose with the facts.

Him: Yeah, I know he does kind of sensationalize, but I think most of what he is saying is accurate. I mean, look around at everything.

Whatever that means. I really did not want to get too much further in the conversation, with him still dealing with losing his mom. But, she clearly died of Covid and he will likely never accept this. Instead, he doubled down on conspiracy. I've known him a couple of years and he's actually a really nice young man, just got sucked in following misinformation, coming from people who should know better

She was in her mid 40s, BTW.
Hell Alex Jones himself admitted his schtick is exactly that
 

tom in MO

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I have a coworker whose father in law passed ostensibly from Covid. In reality he had many comorbidities with one foot on a banana peel and the other in the River Styx. They considered Covid giving him a push a gift from God saving him from a long and tortuous ending. You can die from Covid...but not really.
 

Superman

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I have a coworker whose father in law passed ostensibly from Covid. In reality he had many comorbidities with one foot on a banana peel and the other in the River Styx. They considered Covid giving him a push a gift from God saving him from a long and tortuous ending. You can die from Covid...but not really.
That’s where some of the conspiracy stuff started to gain a foothold. A positive Covid test = a Covid death regardless of actual cause (heart attack, stroke, cancer, whatever). Once that talk (true or not and who knows to what degree) started getting around, a lot of distrust built up quickly.

The issue of decreased life expectancy (true, the biggest decrease in years last year) due to the pandemic continued the question of the cure being worse than the illness. People not feeling like it was safe to access routine care for ongoing health issues. Did someone skip their cardio checkup because of lockdowns (I know I didn’t go last year) and have an adverse outcome (not in my case, fortunately)? Is that a death because of Covid or a death because of lockdowns?

That is all to say that I tend to agree that not all Covid deaths are straight Covid deaths. Doesn’t change anything about the vaccine. However I think it shows a little insight into how it became so politicized.

One thing the left in the US can’t seem to grasp is that running around calling everyone idiots, wishing death on them, and going after their wallets just isn’t a recipe for winning people over that don’t already align. Patience, data, and full fda approval would have a much better positive impact. Unfortunately politics has gotten such that the messenger is far more important than the message these days. Or it’s always been that way and the internet just increases the visibility.
 

Chuck C

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They considered Covid giving him a push a gift from God saving him from a long and tortuous ending
Wow. Covid a gift from God?


You can die from Covid...but not really.
This woman, in her 40s, had one comorbidity- asthma. So, you would say that she did not really die from Covid? She died from asthma, per your logic? People live with asthma into their 90s all the time.
 

Superman

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Wow. Covid a gift from God?

This woman, in her 40s, had one comorbidity- asthma. So, you would say that she did not really die from Covid? She died from asthma, per your logic? People live with asthma into their 90s all the time.
I don’t think it’s crazy to suggest an early end to suffering is a blessing in some circumstances. I don’t think it aids the discourse to mock someone over that view when you don’t know the extent of the individual in questions suffering.

Now asthma is a pretty significant co-morbidity. I hope her son didn’t talk her out of getting vaccinated.
 

cldlhd

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I don’t think it’s crazy to suggest an early end to suffering is a blessing in some circumstances. I don’t think it aids the discourse to mock someone over that view when you don’t know the extent of the individual in questions suffering.

Now asthma is a pretty significant co-morbidity. I hope her son didn’t talk her out of getting vaccinated.
So I guess we could have an organization that judge people's health and execute some as a mercy killing? Did the guy who died wish for it?
 
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Superman

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So I guess we could have an organization that judge people's beth and execute some as a mercy killing? Did the guy who died wish for it?
Wow. That’s a leap and not what I said at all. You have never heard anyone say at a funeral, “At least they’re not suffering anymore.”? Regardless of cause, some people are ready to pass. I knew someone over 100 years old. All their friends and siblings had died. They were lonely. They had younger family, but their lives were busy. This person broke their hip and ended up in long term care and died shortly thereafter. They were ready. I wouldn’t wish death on them or be happy they broke their hip and a certainly wouldn’t advocate taking that choice from them as you absurdly suggest. But it was arguably a blessing in their case. This was well before covid.

How in the world you make the leap to an organization that decides such things for people is beyond comprehension.
 

cldlhd

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Wow. That’s a leap and not what I said at all. You have never heard anyone say at a funeral, “At least they’re not suffering anymore.”? Regardless of cause, some people are ready to pass. I knew someone over 100 years old. All their friends and siblings had died. They were lonely. They had younger family, but their lives were busy. This person broke their hip and ended up in long term care and died shortly thereafter. They were ready. I wouldn’t wish death on them or be happy they broke their hip and a certainly wouldn’t advocate taking that choice from them as you absurdly suggest. But it was arguably a blessing in their case. This was well before covid.

How in the world you make the leap to an organization that decides such things for people is beyond comprehension.
Well the general conversation was around Tom suggesting this guy who died from COVID-19 was a blessing, at least as viewed by others. There was no suggestion that the guy who died was ready. But , of course, some people are.
 

Superman

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Well the general conversation was around Tom suggesting this guy who died from COVID-19 was a blessing, at least as viewed by others. There was no suggestion that the guy who died was ready. But , of course, some people are.
The guy probably wasn’t happy with all his other co-morbidities either. Tom alludes to relief from extended suffering that the family all felt for the person. I take Tom at his word. Of course the preference would be perfect health and no suffering.
 

Chuck C

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Now asthma is a pretty significant co-morbidity. I hope her son didn’t talk her out of getting vaccinated.
The family took no precautions whatsoever and he is a complete anti-vaxxer. However, this situation happened prior to the release of the vaccine. But, no masks, no social distancing. He continued training. he very well might have given it to her, but no way to tell because she had many others that she was in close contact with.

I was not mocking. I get what your saying about a quick death can be a blessing, but I just find it a little shocking to present Covid as a blessing from God. And I don't agree with the comment that Covid does not really kill people.

To comment a bit further. My sister-in-law's father was in a nursing home. He contracted Covid and died a few weeks later. It was tragic, but he was probably in his last few years of life. This has been the case with a lot of the deaths, perhaps most of them. But, certainly not all of them. My physician was treating Covid patients on the front lines, before the vaccine. He contracted Covid, most likely from a patient, as he was seeing those with the virus on a regular basis, and he passed away. He was in his early 60s with no comorbidities. So, I think it is fair to say that Covid really killed him. Some people happen to have a strong immune response that leads to a cytokine storm. This can happen to young or old. Anyway, there are many saying that Covid is a blessing and only killing those who are on death's door and this is completely untrue.
 
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Superman

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The family took no precautions whatsoever and he is a complete anti-vaxxer. However, this situation happened prior to the release of the vaccine. But, no masks, no social distancing. He continued training. he very well might have given it to her, but no way to tell because she had many others that she was in close contact with.

I was not mocking. I get what your saying about a quick death can be a blessing, but I just find it a little shocking to present Covid as a blessing from God. And I don't agree with the comment that Covid does not really kill people.

To comment a bit further. My sister-in-law's father was in a nursing home. He contracted Covid and died a few weeks later. It was tragic, but he was probably in his last few years of life. This has been the case with a lot of the deaths, perhaps most of them. But, certainly not all of them. My physician was treating Covid patients on the front lines, before the vaccine. He contracted Covid, most likely from a patient, as he was seeing those with the virus on a regular basis, and he passed away. He was in his early 60s with no comorbidities. So, I think it is fair to say that Covid really killed him. Some people happen to have a strong immune response that leads to a cytokine storm. This can happen to young or old. Anyway, there are many saying that Covid is a blessing and only killing those who are on death's door and this is completely untrue.
My childhood family doctor also died from Covid. My parents were still under his care up until the end. A former neighbor kid of my wife also died of Covid. He was healthy otherwise and in his late 30’s. The idea that it’s somehow all fake and just the flu is far out there. I’ve had to talk a couple friends away from that slippery slope. I figure any concessions I get acknowledging it’s more than the sniffles is a win in my book. I just worry that as the discourse gets driven more extreme for both sides and we lose any meaningful ability to move forward because people hate the messenger and dig their heels in.
 

cldlhd

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The guy probably wasn’t happy with all his other co-morbidities either. Tom alludes to relief from extended suffering that the family all felt for the person. I take Tom at his word. Of course the preference would be perfect health and no suffering.
I don't take him at his word. He claims nobody does from COVID-19 because if you are in perfect health and get it you likely will survive. Thing is there are a lot of dead people who may have been obese or had diabetes (often related) who caught covid and died that without covid likely would have loved decades longer. There are a lot of people in their 40's and 50's with a health problem who make their 80's so to take each one who died while infected with covid and write it off is nonsense. He's a trumpster
 

Chuck C

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I just worry that as the discourse gets driven more extreme for both sides and we lose any meaningful ability to move forward because people hate the messenger and dig their heels in.
I agree. It can be hard to present our better angels towards those spreading misinformation, especially when we have personally lost family and friends, some of which can be tied directly to those spreading misinformation and the virus, in their immediate circle.
 
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