Covid Vaccines

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cldlhd

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I never said I had or didn't have side effects. It has nothing to do with the discussion. What I said was Ivermectin has few if any side effects.

Go to the VAERS database and compare the reported side effects to the side effect of Ivermectin. Or compare the side effects of ivermectin to those of Remdesivir.
You said that you were vaccinated but that now knowing about the side effects you probably wouldn't do it in hindsight. So I was asking if you had any side effects.
 

Mister_James

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It's like Nashville Phil Valentine. I feel bad that his family is going through a rough time and he is suffering too. That said, I am angry with him that he worked hard to sow skepticism that has taken countless lives.
A free vaccine that may have kept him out of hospital is going to cost him a lot of money. I don't care about the money though. That hospital bed he occupies, the nurses who are tending to him, the machines helping him breathe could be saving a patient whose heart crapped out, could be saving a life that is injured in an accident.
We all pay for his actions, when people start to realize words and actions have a real effect on others, intended and otherwise.
Remember the Coke bottle in the God's must have been crazy? It's Friday watch the movie and laugh.
 

vitdoc

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It would be very nice if there was a repurposed drug like Ivermectin or something else that truly helped COVID. I looked at the meta analysis study and the only thing that impressed me was the multiple statistical gyrations done to try to make heads or tails out of it. So maybe somewhere in this morass of data there is at best a subtle something with this drug. It is no penicillin.

So what does this agent have anything to do with vaccines whose effects are very far from subtle? Why are the vast majority of patients currently hospitalized non vaccinated? Is it a world wide government conspiracy?

So let’s get more people vaccinated and still look for anything else that might help but until we find the equivalent of penicillin for this virus we need vaccination.
 

Keithl

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Let me turn it around. How do you determine what is in society's best interest?

I believe that if every individual does what is in his or her best interest, while not infringing on the rights of others, that should result in what is best for society. The way human culture has developed, what is in my best interest, is usually also in the best interest of those around me. If you have money and I have food, then each of our interests overlaps - you give me some of your money and I give you some of my food. Originally it might have been if you were the best hunter, then I would do something for you in compensation. There is a natural give and take.

And finally, there is still the possibility of currently unknown, long-term side effects.

This is a difficult challenge and unfortunately, our leaders turned it into a political contest. Doctors and scientists who have differing opinions on the science surrounding covid-19 are being defamed and their posts and videos are deleted. Dissenting opinions are treated as misinformation, regardless of the credentials and credibility of the person expressing them. Yet, the government still has no early treatment program for Covid-19 after 1 1/2 years and a huge problem with breakthrough cases increasing.
clearly your belief is misplaced. Current situation clearly shows a lot of people are only concerned about themselves and not getting vaccinated is what they believe is in their best interest. So how is that working out for your theory and the rest of us?

“Our leaders turned this into a political contest’, wrong, our ex-leader made the virus and masks into a circus and the mess we have today. Once his base was wound up the other lemmings his party had no choice but to follow him as they had already sold their souls.

Many times doing what is right for society is not in a person’s best interest, ask those in the military, they are performing a service to our great nations and putting us before them. Take it further, doctors and nurses put themselves in harms way and risked COVID to help others. How is that in their best interest? And now that Delta can make vaccinated people sick(at least not likely going to die) these selfish fools are hurting all of us and again putting a drain on society. How many health care folks are leaving the field and how many potentially future health care workers will now not enter the field because of this. What is the impact on the economy due to the selfish people? My wife and I (as I am sure others) are avoiding doing things such as movies, eating out going the local stores, etc. to avoid being put in high risk scenarios even with a mask.

The easy fix (as I have mentioned before) treat it like smoking, higher insurance permits, no mask no service, and no federal paying your hospital bills. More and more companies are requiring vaccines to come to work. Once all ages can get the vaccine it will be quick for many school districts will start making vaccines manda7just like measles.
 

rich01

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Virginia US
clearly your belief is misplaced. Current situation clearly shows a lot of people are only concerned about themselves and not getting vaccinated is what they believe is in their best interest. So how is that working out for your theory and the rest of us?

“Our leaders turned this into a political contest’, wrong, our ex-leader made the virus and masks into a circus and the mess we have today. Once his base was wound up the other lemmings his party had no choice but to follow him as they had already sold their souls.

Many times doing what is right for society is not in a person’s best interest, ask those in the military, they are performing a service to our great nations and putting us before them. Take it further, doctors and nurses put themselves in harms way and risked COVID to help others. How is that in their best interest? And now that Delta can make vaccinated people sick(at least not likely going to die) these selfish fools are hurting all of us and again putting a drain on society. How many health care folks are leaving the field and how many potentially future health care workers will now not enter the field because of this. What is the impact on the economy due to the selfish people? My wife and I (as I am sure others) are avoiding doing things such as movies, eating out going the local stores, etc. to avoid being put in high risk scenarios even with a mask.

The easy fix (as I have mentioned before) treat it like smoking, higher insurance permits, no mask no service, and no federal paying your hospital bills. More and more companies are requiring vaccines to come to work. Once all ages can get the vaccine it will be quick for many school districts will start making vaccines manda7just like measles.
You seem to believe your way of viewing the world is the correct and only way to view the world.

If someone decides to risk their own safety for the benefit of others, they have decided it is in their best interest to do so. Otherwise, they wouldn't do it. Doctors aren't forced to treat infectious patients, but most choose to do so, but some don't. The president of the FLCCC quit his job in Wisconsin and went to NYC to work in emergency care. No one made him. For him, that was the right decision. I bet there are doctors who got out of emergency care because of Covid-19. That was the right decision for them.

Yesterday I developed a protocol that I shared with others. I wondered what it was about obesity that caused it to be so dangerous when it comes to Covid-19. Aside from the comorbidities that are often associated with obesity, are there factors specific to obesity? I found 4 factors and also ways one might mitigate those factors. What have you done?

Today I offered what I am doing to prevent myself from getting the delta variant on another forum. Even though I am vaccinated, the protocol I am using is the FLCCC's prevention protocol (I-Mask+), which includes Ivermectin as a prophylactic, wearing a mask (I wear a K95 mask), and supplements primarily to help the immune system fight off viral infection. Dr. Paul Marik, the founder of the FLCCC also encourages the use of certain nasal sprays and mouthwashes to kill the virus in the nasal cavity at the earliest infection. I shared all that information with friends, what have you done?
 

Keithl

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You seem to believe your way of viewing the world is the correct and only way to view the world.

If someone decides to risk their own safety for the benefit of others, they have decided it is in their best interest to do so. Otherwise, they wouldn't do it. Doctors aren't forced to treat infectious patients, but most choose to do so, but some don't. The president of the FLCCC quit his job in Wisconsin and went to NYC to work in emergency care. No one made him. For him, that was the right decision. I bet there are doctors who got out of emergency care because of Covid-19. That was the right decision for them.

Yesterday I developed a protocol that I shared with others. I wondered what it was about obesity that caused it to be so dangerous when it comes to Covid-19. Aside from the comorbidities that are often associated with obesity, are there factors specific to obesity? I found 4 factors and also ways one might mitigate those factors. What have you done?

Today I offered what I am doing to prevent myself from getting the delta variant on another forum. Even though I am vaccinated, the protocol I am using is the FLCCC's prevention protocol (I-Mask+), which includes Ivermectin as a prophylactic, wearing a mask (I wear a K95 mask), and supplements primarily to help the immune system fight off viral infection. Dr. Paul Marik, the founder of the FLCCC also encourages the use of certain nasal sprays and mouthwashes to kill the virus in the nasal cavity at the earliest infection. I shared all that information with friends, what have you done?

I do not believe my way is thinking is the only way. And if someone wants to do stupid things and risk their own safety I am fine with it, until is risks the safety of innocent people. No one forces people to take jobs that risk their safety, but they have a calling of purpose for the greater good. Science has proven the vaccine is extremely effective with less than 0.1 of vaccinated people that still get sick needing to go to the hospital and even far fewer (like 0.001) dying. It is not looking like Delta can spread from vaccinated people as many can get it and be asymptomatic. There always has been and always will be people that resist what is for the greater good. 1918 there were anti-mask leagues. In the end if someone want to play russian roulette with their lives fine, but when the collateral damage is innocent people then they are selfish and only doing what is in their best interest. IMy wife and I never stopped wearing masks in stores even when were allowed to remove them. As much as we know about variants and how they spread and what if any long term effects there are wearing a mask is a no-brainer and minor inconvenience.

Look at all the GOP people refusing to say whether they got the vaccine, you know they did, but if they admit it their people would be upset.

I am a live and let live as long as what you are doing is not endangering anyone else. People not getting vaccinated enagangers many people
 

cldlhd

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You seem to believe your way of viewing the world is the correct and only way to view the world.

If someone decides to risk their own safety for the benefit of others, they have decided it is in their best interest to do so. Otherwise, they wouldn't do it. Doctors aren't forced to treat infectious patients, but most choose to do so, but some don't. The president of the FLCCC quit his job in Wisconsin and went to NYC to work in emergency care. No one made him. For him, that was the right decision. I bet there are doctors who got out of emergency care because of Covid-19. That was the right decision for them.

Yesterday I developed a protocol that I shared with others. I wondered what it was about obesity that caused it to be so dangerous when it comes to Covid-19. Aside from the comorbidities that are often associated with obesity, are there factors specific to obesity? I found 4 factors and also ways one might mitigate those factors. What have you done?

Today I offered what I am doing to prevent myself from getting the delta variant on another forum. Even though I am vaccinated, the protocol I am using is the FLCCC's prevention protocol (I-Mask+), which includes Ivermectin as a prophylactic, wearing a mask (I wear a K95 mask), and supplements primarily to help the immune system fight off viral infection. Dr. Paul Marik, the founder of the FLCCC also encourages the use of certain nasal sprays and mouthwashes to kill the virus in the nasal cavity at the earliest infection. I shared all that information with friends, what have you done?
So if I decide it's in my best interest to rape and pillage then that's the right decision for me? There is no right and wrong eh....?
 

pellicle

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You seem to believe your way of viewing the world is the correct and only way to view the world.
seriously, you NEED to watch this


magical thinking is not the correct way to see the world. Sure you can see it that way if YOU wish, but you must know that the Sun does not Circle the earth (which isn't flat) and all your hopes that it does and it is do not make it so.

As long as you can differentiate that your thinking is not actually right, but just hopeful then you'll be ok.

I'm not kidding, that video ... watch it ... it covers ALL the points you are discussing
 

slipkid

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Just as an aside, the company that I work for is now offering $200 to all employees who can show that they have been "fully" vaccinated against Covid (I say fully in quotes because it seems like this is actually a moving target and although right now for example Pfizer's full status is two shots - I suspect it could change in the future as more variants get discovered and if the vaccines are tuned as a result but I digress).

So I asked an anti-vaxer at work if he was going to give in for the sake of the money but he said "No, I'm not selling my soul for a measely $200!". And when I tried to draw him into a serious discussion as to what his reasons were not to, it was the commonly heard misplaced concerns like "I've never had blood clots and I don't want any now either", "the vaccine does not even work, plenty of people have covid that got a vaccine", "the vaccine kills people", "I don't trust the government", and "it's all about the $$$, the gov't etc are all making tons of money on this & that is why they are pushing it".

When I tried to challenge his point on the vaccine not working and said although it cannot prevent a person from getting "infected" by the virus it has been shown to reduce the severity of the infection he then insisted that many people are in the hospital dying from covid who got the vaccine - when I tried to explain to him that the percentage of people in hospital now with very serious covid illness is something like 99% who did NOT get vaccinated compared to 1% of people who had been vaccinated he shot that down as "that's just media lies"....sigh...
 

Keithl

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Messages
484
There is a certain mass of people,that no logic, reason or science as well as bribery will ever sway. I may get flamed for this, but chatting with my buddy yesterday, other than the impact to innocent people that may get infected as collateral damage the majority of the people in that group I am fine with them getting sick and dying. I have posted before my tolerance for them is over. Darwin theory should run its course and just make sure the rest of us are not paying for their stupidity.
 

cldlhd

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Just as an aside, the company that I work for is now offering $200 to all employees who can show that they have been "fully" vaccinated against Covid (I say fully in quotes because it seems like this is actually a moving target and although right now for example Pfizer's full status is two shots - I suspect it could change in the future as more variants get discovered and if the vaccines are tuned as a result but I digress).

So I asked an anti-vaxer at work if he was going to give in for the sake of the money but he said "No, I'm not selling my soul for a measely $200!". And when I tried to draw him into a serious discussion as to what his reasons were not to, it was the commonly heard misplaced concerns like "I've never had blood clots and I don't want any now either", "the vaccine does not even work, plenty of people have covid that got a vaccine", "the vaccine kills people", "I don't trust the government", and "it's all about the $$$, the gov't etc are all making tons of money on this & that is why they are pushing it".

When I tried to challenge his point on the vaccine not working and said although it cannot prevent a person from getting "infected" by the virus it has been shown to reduce the severity of the infection he then insisted that many people are in the hospital dying from covid who got the vaccine - when I tried to explain to him that the percentage of people in hospital now with very serious covid illness is something like 99% who did NOT get vaccinated compared to 1% of people who had been vaccinated he shot that down as "that's just media lies"....sigh...
Ya it's sad, we have a young guy at work who's alright but not particularly bright who is the only one not vaccinated AND he doesn't want to wear a mask. So recently management was reminded of this and our a memo out stating our policy is vaccinated people do not have to wear a mask in the building but the unvaccinated do. Of course he got all butt hurt and started babbling about what makes the country great blah blah blah,
BTW pretty much every time I see a post of yours I get a certain Who song stuck in my head, I think they call it an earworm....
 

pellicle

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Michael O

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Just as an aside, the company that I work for is now offering $200 to all employees who can show that they have been "fully" vaccinated against Covid (I say fully in quotes because it seems like this is actually a moving target and although right now for example Pfizer's full status is two shots - I suspect it could change in the future as more variants get discovered and if the vaccines are tuned as a result but I digress).

So I asked an anti-vaxer at work if he was going to give in for the sake of the money but he said "No, I'm not selling my soul for a measely $200!". And when I tried to draw him into a serious discussion as to what his reasons were not to, it was the commonly heard misplaced concerns like "I've never had blood clots and I don't want any now either", "the vaccine does not even work, plenty of people have covid that got a vaccine", "the vaccine kills people", "I don't trust the government", and "it's all about the $$$, the gov't etc are all making tons of money on this & that is why they are pushing it".

When I tried to challenge his point on the vaccine not working and said although it cannot prevent a person from getting "infected" by the virus it has been shown to reduce the severity of the infection he then insisted that many people are in the hospital dying from covid who got the vaccine - when I tried to explain to him that the percentage of people in hospital now with very serious covid illness is something like 99% who did NOT get vaccinated compared to 1% of people who had been vaccinated he shot that down as "that's just media lies"....sigh...
On the rare occassions that I've been involved w/ F2F discussions like this, I've found that a useful phrase is "What would it take to change your mind?" ie, what kind of evidence, or who would you need to hear from, or what experience would you have that might change your mind?

It's a generally good question in a lot of contexts - when people want to be seen as thoughtful and smart, they describe how they think instead of being performative about their identity as a thinker. The exercise of describing what would change their mind sometimes makes the foundations of bad thinking collapse.
 

Keithl

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Ya it's sad, we have a young guy at work who's alright but not particularly bright who is the only one not vaccinated AND he doesn't want to wear a mask. So recently management was reminded of this and our a memo out stating our policy is vaccinated people do not have to wear a mask in the building but the unvaccinated do. Of course he got all butt hurt and started babbling about what makes the country great blah blah blah,
BTW pretty much every time I see a post of yours I get a certain Who song stuck in my head, I think they call it an earworm....
I am pissed with have to "incentivize" people to get vaxxed. To me the real incentive should be higher insurance premiums with possible caps on Covid coverage if you don't get vaxxed, without a valid verified medical exception. It is funny the amount of verification my wife had to go through to add me to her medical insurance, do the same for Covid vaccinations. And if they lie and are caught that should be fraud resulting in legal implications.

Also I look at some people not getting vaxxed then get Covid and are getting double lung transplants, why? They have already proven they have no regard for their life, others or even an appreciation for the person whose lungs they received.

Too bad we can't vote these people off the island.
 
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