Covid Vaccines

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Mister_James

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The lies that people tell and stick are just out of this world.
Reagan gave us Welfare Queens, Today its illegal voting. This is garbage.
How much is welfare as a % of the national expenditure? It is in the same ballpark as voter fraud to the general election. It is wasted change...does not drain the system.
I remember the outrage for Obama saying "you did not build your business on your own" How many of those business filed for PPP? We all chipped to support your company but ...it is your sweat only?
People concerned about water evaporating from a bucket but not paying attention that the bucket has holes.
A full time Mcdonald burger flipper pays a higher % in taxes than a hedge fund manager.

This was about vaccines...oh well.
 

cldlhd

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The lies that people tell and stick are just out of this world.
Reagan gave us Welfare Queens, Today its illegal voting. This is garbage.
How much is welfare as a % of the national expenditure? It is in the same ballpark as voter fraud to the general election. It is wasted change...does not drain the system.
I remember the outrage for Obama saying "you did not build your business on your own" How many of those business filed for PPP? We all chipped to support your company but ...it is your sweat only?
People concerned about water evaporating from a bucket but not paying attention that the bucket has holes.
A full time Mcdonald burger flipper pays a higher % in taxes than a hedge fund manager.

This was about vaccines...oh well.
I pretty much agree with you especially regarding the hedge fund manager paying less of a percentage in taxes than someone like me. But to play devil's advocate I guess the businesses argument would be they were justified in asking the government for a PPP handout because the government is the one that shut them down. Now I'm not saying they shouldn't have been shut down I'm just saying that would be the other side of it. As for the legal voting I consider That claim to be an excuse for losing and then making it harder for people to vote. Cheers
 
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rich01

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its worse than that. Today I was in a shop and people said to me there is not need to get vaccinated because you just need to take worming tablets.

I was incredulous and wondered where the hell they got that idea from ... so now I read that "The Guardian" link and see:

The preprint study on the efficacy and safety of ivermectin – a drug used against parasites such as worms and headlice – in treating Covid-19, led by Dr Ahmed Elgazzar from Benha University in Egypt, was published on the Research Square website in November.

for the love of Gawd. You may as well believe this:


A local cleric from the Iranian city of Qom has suggested a novel cure for the new coronavirus - the pre-bedtime rectal administration of violet leaf oil.
Users on Twitter describe how the Ayatollah Tabrizian has publicly denounced Western medicine as "un-Islamic".​
In a post to over 120,000 followers on the social messaging service Telegram, Tabrizian, a purveyor of traditional Islam medicine, listed several alternative techniques for fighting the spread of the contagious disease, known as Covid-19.​
I would have thought you would have done some research and looked at the scientific information on Ivermectin including the recent meta-analysis by Dr. Tess Lawrie. Here are some links to trials, interviews, and treatment protocols by real doctors who treat real people, not bureaucrats with an agenda.


I would highly recommend any of you who are not locked into your position listen to this interview of Dr. Pierre Kory, President of the Front Line Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC) by Dr. Bret Weinstein.

 

rich01

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Uh, there has never been a perfect vaccine, it just prevents DEATH. Many believe that the flu shot is a cure of the flu, but it just prevents death.
Maybe you should educate yourself on what a perfect vaccine and an imperfect vaccine are. The smallpox and the polio vaccines were considered perfect vaccines. The covid-19 vaccines are considered imperfect because they are leaky.

That's why smallpox is now considered eradicated and polio about 99% eradicated. The delta variant is showing everyone that the covid-19 vaccines are leaky and we see that Pfizer seems to lose some of its effectiveness against infection rather quickly
 
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cldlhd

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Maybe you should educate yourself on what a perfect vaccine and an imperfect vaccine are. Ths smallpox and the polio vaccines were considered perfect vaccines. The covid-19 vaccines are considered imperfect because they are leaky.

That's why smallpox is now considered eradicated and polio about 99% eradicated. The delta variant is showing everyone that the covid-19 vaccines are leaky and we see that Pfizer seems to lose some of its effectiveness against infection rather quickly
Weren't those other vaccines more effective also because they were mandated? I mean if only 50 to 60% of the population took a polio vaccine would it have been eradicated?
Also isn't it difficult to do an apples to apples comparison because not all viruses are equally contagious? I mean if you're willing to give other treatments the benefit of the doubt and cite studies why are you so against the vaccines which, while not perfect, are shown to be very effective? A vaccine and, if it fails and you have a breakthrough infection, subsequent treatment of infection aren't mutually exclusive.
 
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rich01

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Rich, you stated that “believe whether someone chooses to get vaccinated or not is their own private medical choice.” And so it is.

I just plain don’t understand the choice of those that choose not to get vaccinated knowing that it’s not a choice that just impacts them. I know by being vaccinated I am doing my part to prevent spreading it to others who may get very sick or die.

I felt an obligation to get vaccinated. I don’t live in a bubble nor do I want to. What I do affects others.

It effects people like my daughter and son in law, both first responders, valuable members of the community, who are both immunocompromised. They are vaccinated, but because of their health (MS and kidney transplant) they remain vulnerable. It effects my grandchildren who have to yet been vaccinated. It effects business owners who may be shut down if there is an outbreak in there place of business. It impacts countries all over the world that have not yet had access to enough vaccines. It impacts people waiting for heart surgery when hospitals are maxed out treaty covid patients. It’s not just about us.
That is a moral question I consider to be separate from whether getting vaccinated is a personal choice. I personally don't think the government has a place in either, but I don't demand that others believe as I do.

We know how to keep from becoming infected - stay away from people. For most people, this is not an option or at least not an option they choose to employ. If a person chooses not to isolate themselves because they are at high risk, what else can they do? Are they doing everything in their control to make sure they don't become infected? Do they wear an N-95 mask? Do they have their groceries delivered? I'm just making the point if a person is at high risk, they have to accept the responsibility of protecting themselves. It may not seem fair, but it is what it is.

Is it my responsibility to get vaccinated just on the chance I might become infected and might infect someone who for medical reasons was unable to be vaccinated or is immuno-compromised? Leaving morality out of it, it seems to me that the person who is immune-compromised has the responsibility to protect themselves. I believe someone who has received a transplant, gets almost no protection from the vaccine.

These are the people who should be exploring options like Ivermectin. Studies seem to indicate Vitamin D levels are also very important. The FLCCC has a preventative protocol that people can follow. Are they following the protocol?

My point is as good citizens, we all have a role to play, but the very highest priority is what the individual can do to protect themselves. Then what the parents can do to protect the family.

As I posted earlier, I did get vaccinated, but the more I learn about the vaccines, the more I think I made a mistake, even personally being at high risk.

Based on my research, I take Ivermectin weekly because I believe if I do get exposed to the Sars-cov2 virus, it will likely destroy it before it becomes Covid-19. I also take daily vitamin d, vitamin c, b-complex, zinc, and quercetin, and at the 1st sign of any sniffles, I take elderberry extract (natural antiviral). I rarely get a cold or the flu, so it seems my immune system is pretty good at fighting off viruses already, but now it is as primed as I can get it.

I have been encouraging people who are not getting vaccinated to take Ivermectin weekly as a prophylactic. I know some are deciding to just have it on hand to take at the first sign of infection.

I don't know why people see the Covid-19 vaccines in such polarized ways. I probably spend at least 2 hours a day reading updates from Israel and Britain, looking at US stats, listening to podcasts by doctors who are treating Covid-19, and trying to understand why over 1 1/2 years after Covid-19 was discovered, the US government still does not have an early treatment protocol for Covid-19.

I would suggest you refer your daughter and son-in-law to the FLCCC site for their I-Mask+ Protocol for prevention.


It's strange how differently people see things. If I was to get Covid-19 and become hospitalized, I don't think it would ever occur to me to blame someone who hadn't gotten vaccinated. I would be wondering what else I could have done to protect myself. Did I take unnecessary risks? If someone close to me became very ill, I would blame myself for not doing enough to protect them.
 

rich01

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Weren't those other vaccines more effective also because they were mandated? I mean if only 50 to 60% of the population took a polio vaccine would it have been eradicated?
Also isn't it difficult to do an apples to apples comparison because not all viruses are equally contagious? I mean if you're willing to give other treatments the benefit of the doubt and cite studies why are you so against the vaccines which, while not perfect, are shown to be very effective? A vaccine and, if it fails and you have a breakthrough infection, subsequent treatment of infection aren't mutually exclusive.
My point was about perfect and imperfect vaccines.
 

Michael O

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Jun 22, 2021
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90
Weren't those other vaccines more effective also because they were mandated? I mean if only 50 to 60% of the population took a polio vaccine would it have been eradicated?
Yes. No.

A more detailed answer is that smallpox vaccinations were mandated in the US and UK by the mid 1850s. The effectiveness of the vaccine is approximately 95% (that number sound familiar at all?), with resistance tailing off over 3-5 years. Eradication came on the heels of a coordinated worldwide effort that monitored outbreaks, and vaccinated people in outbreak areas.
 
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Michael O

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Jun 22, 2021
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I haven't been following latest news scuttlebut etc regarding the various vaccines but I recall a while ago there was talk that some vaccines might need an additional booster shot a year later or whatever to keep our immune systems tuned in so to speak. Has anyone heard anything recently about this, where any of that might stand with the various vaccines?
I think the reality that most health care professionals and policy makers are coming to is that Covid will become like the flu. It mutates fast enough and the world is big enough that we won't be able to eradicate it. My guess is that in 5 years, there will be yearly shots or scheduled boosters on a regular basis. There will be regular local outbreaks of variants that will be very damaging to unvaccinated populations and somewhat damaging to vaccinated but susceptible populations.

My personal forecast? Pfizer is recommending a booster for Delta/Lambda, so I think its likely that once I'm on the other side of my OHS, the timing will be such that I'll get a booster.
 

cldlhd

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That is a moral question I consider to be separate from whether getting vaccinated is a personal choice. I personally don't think the government has a place in either, but I don't demand that others believe as I do.

We know how to keep from becoming infected - stay away from people. For most people, this is not an option or at least not an option they choose to employ. If a person chooses not to isolate themselves because they are at high risk, what else can they do? Are they doing everything in their control to make sure they don't become infected? Do they wear an N-95 mask? Do they have their groceries delivered? I'm just making the point if a person is at high risk, they have to accept the responsibility of protecting themselves. It may not seem fair, but it is what it is.

Is it my responsibility to get vaccinated just on the chance I might become infected and might infect someone who for medical reasons was unable to be vaccinated or is immuno-compromised? Leaving morality out of it, it seems to me that the person who is immune-compromised has the responsibility to protect themselves. I believe someone who has received a transplant, gets almost no protection from the vaccine.

These are the people who should be exploring options like Ivermectin. Studies seem to indicate Vitamin D levels are also very important. The FLCCC has a preventative protocol that people can follow. Are they following the protocol?

My point is as good citizens, we all have a role to play, but the very highest priority is what the individual can do to protect themselves. Then what the parents can do to protect the family.

As I posted earlier, I did get vaccinated, but the more I learn about the vaccines, the more I think I made a mistake, even personally being at high risk.

Based on my research, I take Ivermectin weekly because I believe if I do get exposed to the Sars-cov2 virus, it will likely destroy it before it becomes Covid-19. I also take daily vitamin d, vitamin c, b-complex, zinc, and quercetin, and at the 1st sign of any sniffles, I take elderberry extract (natural antiviral). I rarely get a cold or the flu, so it seems my immune system is pretty good at fighting off viruses already, but now it is as primed as I can get it.

I have been encouraging people who are not getting vaccinated to take Ivermectin weekly as a prophylactic. I know some are deciding to just have it on hand to take at the first sign of infection.

I don't know why people see the Covid-19 vaccines in such polarized ways. I probably spend at least 2 hours a day reading updates from Israel and Britain, looking at US stats, listening to podcasts by doctors who are treating Covid-19, and trying to understand why over 1 1/2 years after Covid-19 was discovered, the US government still does not have an early treatment protocol for Covid-19.

I would suggest you refer your daughter and son-in-law to the FLCCC site for their I-Mask+ Protocol for prevention.


It's strange how differently people see things. If I was to get Covid-19 and become hospitalized, I don't think it would ever occur to me to blame someone who hadn't gotten vaccinated. I would be wondering what else I could have done to protect myself. Did I take unnecessary risks? If someone close to me became very ill, I would blame myself for not doing enough to protect them.
I sort of stopped reading at the part where you said the immunocompromised person has a responsibility to protect themselves.... Of course they have to try to protect themselves but the idea that the government has no role in the public health is ridiculous. The whole purpose of the government is for the public good. That's like saying we shouldn't have a military we should all just defend ourselves if somebody invades the country. Most people cannot totally isolate themselves from others. At my workplace vaccinations are not mandatory, theoretically if you're not vaccinated you have to wear a mask in the building but it is not enforced. We have one young guy who won't get vaccinated because he "wants to see how long it takes to catch it" now normally I would say okay fine That's natural selection but as you said the vaccines are not perfect so his stupidity is putting me and my family at risk. So more should be done to isolate those who are refusing to vaccinate to protect the public, as for themselves I could really give a rat's ass That's their own problem. In other words if he doesn't want to get vaccinated he should have to wear a mask every single day everywhere he goes while on the clock and he should have a covid-19 test administered using an anal swab once a week. Then he could decide whether he wants to get vaccinated
Ask for your point regarding someone who has received a transplant not getting a lot of benefit from the vaccine I would think this is more of an argument as to why the rest of the healthy public should get vaccinated. Unless you think we should all take your worm pills forever. So you think that somebody would transplant should have to spend the rest of their life wearing an n95 mask everywhere they go because so many people don't want to take a safe effective vaccine?
 
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Humboldtgrrl

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Interesting that you mention Dunning and Kruger. I watched an interesting video presentation today, which discusses the Dunning and Kruger effect relative to the current anti-vaccination movement. Some interesting insights into vaccine hesitancy:

Thanks for posting this interesting Dr. Grande video!
 

Mister_James

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Maybe you should educate yourself on what a perfect vaccine and an imperfect vaccine are. The smallpox and the polio vaccines were considered perfect vaccines. The covid-19 vaccines are considered imperfect because they are leaky.

That's why smallpox is now considered eradicated and polio about 99% eradicated. The delta variant is showing everyone that the covid-19 vaccines are leaky and we see that Pfizer seems to lose some of its effectiveness against infection rather quickly
Hogwash!
"Leaky" vaccines...The smallpox vaccine uses a live virus, protects you for about 5 years. There is booster shots for smallpox.
PLEASE TRY AGAIN
 

Mister_James

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The reason for smallpox eradication has to more to do with the disease itself. Only a mother who loves you will care for you with smallpox. It is a devastating disease.
Chance a smallpox infection in an outbreak or a vaccine. There is a 95% compliance. You only have to see a picture of a child with smallpox.
The flu...who cares...fever, chills, running nose..just a bad cold.
 

rich01

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I sort of stopped reading at the part where you said the immunocompromised person has a responsibility to protect themselves.... Of course they have to try to protect themselves but the idea that the government has no role in the public health is ridiculous. The whole purpose of the government is for the public good. That's like saying we shouldn't have a military we should all just defend ourselves if somebody invades the country. Most people cannot totally isolate themselves from others. At my workplace vaccinations are not mandatory, theoretically if you're not vaccinated you have to wear a mask in the building but it is not enforced. We have one young guy who won't get vaccinated because he "wants to see how long it takes to catch it" now normally I would say okay fine That's natural selection but as you said the vaccines are not perfect so his stupidity is putting me in my family at risk. So more should be done to isolate those who are refusing to vaccinate to protect the public, as for themselves I could really give a rat's ass That's their own problem. In other words if he doesn't want to get vaccinated he should have to wear a mask every single day everywhere he goes while on the clock and he should have a covid-19 test administered using an anal swab once a week. Then he could decide whether he wants to get vaccinated
Ask for your point regarding someone who has received a transplant not getting a lot of benefit from the vaccine I would think this is more of an argument as to why the rest of the healthy public should get vaccinated. Unless you think we should all take your worm pills forever. So you think that somebody would transplant should have to spend the rest of their life wearing an n95 mask everywhere they go because so many people don't want to take a safe effective vaccine?
I started a response but realized I was wasting my time. Have a good day.
 

rich01

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Hogwash!
"Leaky" vaccines...The smallpox vaccine uses a live virus, protects you for about 5 years. There is booster shots for smallpox.
PLEASE TRY AGAIN
Perfect, imperfect, leaky - Those aren't my words, they are in the scientific literature to describe vaccines.
 

Mister_James

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I pretty much agree with you especially regarding the hedge fund manager paying less of a percentage in taxes than someone like me. But to play devil's advocate I guess the businesses argument would be they were justified in asking the government for a PPP handout because the government is the one that shut them down. Now I'm not saying they shouldn't have been shut down I'm just saying that would be the other side of it. As for the legal voting I consider That claim to be an excuse for losing and then making it harder for people to vote. Cheers
The government just made the obvious, obvious. I am in NYC and I can tell you March 2020 NYC was eerily empty. Business would have shut down, government or no government.
Basic line is that WE are our brother's keeper. We are in it together, we suffered together and we come out together. There is no I.
Government money is OUR money, it is our taxes and our children's taxes.
This is about basic human decency. Wear a mask to protect someone's grandmother. If the mask is 1% effective. You save 1 life in 100. Is that life worth some discomfort?
 

cldlhd

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I started a response but realized I was wasting my time. Have a good day.
So we should have to live lives where you never take "an unnecessary risk"? So we will perpetually take daily preventive treatments like you think makes sense but don't get vaccinated and don't ever go out to dinner, or the movies or anything because they are unnecessary risks rather than get vaccinated?
 

cldlhd

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The government just made the obvious, obvious. I am in NYC and I can tell you March 2020 NYC was eerily empty. Business would have shut down, government or no government.
Basic line is that WE are our brother's keeper. We are in it together, we suffered together and we come out together. There is no I.
Government money is OUR money, it is our taxes and our children's taxes.
This is about basic human decency. Wear a mask to protect someone's grandmother. If the mask is 1% effective. You save 1 life in 100. Is that life worth some discomfort?
I don't know if you're looking to argue with me or you didn't really read it I said I was playing devil's advocate. I also said that I pretty much entirely agree with you.
 
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