Bleeding issue

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Paul1972

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Joined
Jan 4, 2018
Messages
169
Location
England
Hi all , looking for a bit of advice , could an inr of 4.3 cause me to wee mainly blood this morning, first time ever and out of the blue . Thinking of going up my local hospital . Regards Paul
 

drleng

Active member
Joined
Oct 21, 2021
Messages
32
Hi all , looking for a bit of advice , could an inr of 4.3 cause me to wee mainly blood this morning, first time ever and out of the blue . Thinking of going up my local hospital . Regards Paul

INR >4 at risk of spontaneous bleed.
You should seek medical attention if it's available to you.
If you can't get medical attention, then you should skip a dose of warfarin and do an INR check tomorrow.
Why have you gone above your therapeutic range? Taking other drugs that interact with warfarin? Double dosed? Need to find a cause.
 

pellicle

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Queensland, OzTrayLeeYa
Hi all , looking for a bit of advice , could an inr of 4.3 cause me to wee mainly blood this morning, first time ever and out of the blue . Thinking of going up my local hospital .

Hospital is a good move has anything else happened because an INR of 4 won't cause a bleed. So something else is working against you and the INR is making it more obvious.

I hope they sort it out.

Definitely head in because (hard to know how much) you don't want to be losing blood without attention.

Best Wishes
 

PeterII

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Joined
Sep 20, 2015
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Location
Toronto
Hi all , looking for a bit of advice , could an inr of 4.3 cause me to wee mainly blood this morning, first time ever and out of the blue . Thinking of going up my local hospital . Regards Paul

Hi, having an INR higher than "My" target range, DID that for me as well, Doctors thought it was something else but after 2 months of dealing with it, i added more greens to my diet, and Change to Weekly testing to make sure INR was withing "my" range, or the range that works for me. IF i had an INR = 4.3 Absolutly, i would be in same situation you describe.
 

pellicle

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Good morning

I wanted to address this point as its sort of in error.
INR >4 at risk of spontaneous bleed.

the actuality of it all is that warfarin and high INR exacerbates bleeds, a "spontaneous bleed" is a misnomer because warfarin does not act on anything which causes a bleed.

It of course exacerbates one.

We have had many members here with INR off the coagulation scale and not report a bleed.

This is not to say one should remain high, and as soon as one tests and sees a trend towards out of range one should be correcting their dose to account for that and bring INR back into range. This is the key advantage of weekly testing: you know sooner and can therefore spend MORE time WITHIN therapeutic range.

That warfarin does not cause bleeds is stated in almost every discussion on the topic but you won't find it simply by asking Google "does warfarin cause a bleed". The title of this macular degeneration article shows yet another professional supporting this notion

I reply because I think its important that people do not suffer the burden of even more misinformation about warfarin. Note that I'm not saying you are spreading misinformation, more that by non-careful wording intentions of words are skewed.

Indeed in this case to Paul this situation probably seems spontaneous. However I'm of the view that it was caused by something. I hope its as simple as a UTI

Best wishes
 

sharky7

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Mar 17, 2015
Messages
92
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SOUTH FLORIDA
There are a few here that seem to be stating, bloodthiners do not cause bleeding, although I have also heard from those that seem to
think that is does, and in the form of bleeding gums! so my direct question here is this, and simply, is it possible for any blood thinners to be the cause of bleeding gums? ANYONE? [just asking, it doesnt hurt to ask, RIGHT?]
 

sharky7

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SOUTH FLORIDA
Get the cleaning, does not matter, still get bleeding gums. Seems I remember now someone stating they had to get off blood thinner because it was casing them this same thing, and I am here now asking, is there any others having this same problem? WOW, just found this now, and it seems that many do not know this to be true, and i figure it this way, I cannot be the only one having this problem, there was to be others! >>> {{"There are many reasons why a person's gums might bleed, and certain medications, such as blood thinners, may be to blame."}} <<< Doesnt seem to last, gums dont bleed all the time, perhaps it has something to do with the INR going up and down, and not steady, which is an almost impossible thing to do, and this is why to monitor INR is so important to check with some people at least every week or so! I am only saying, I just have to think that I am not the only one having this happen when taking WARFARIN, and I am looking for others that think it may be something else, but if it is the fault of the WARFARIN, and nothing else, and if this true, then perhaps there is also other types of bleeding that BLOOD THINNERS may cause??? I also am asking this here because of some here saying that, "blood thinners do not cause bleeding on its own", this sure seems to be the case for some people! (and if I and others are wrong, and it is true that blood thinners do not cause any type of bleeding in its own, and there has to be a reason, and the THINNERS only makes it worse, etc., I and others really to find out what the truth is, than deal with that!)
 

sharky7

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SOUTH FLORIDA
I am thinking now, PERHAPS it could be a medication interaction of some sort? just a thought, I also happen to think, those that create and make all of those MEDICATIONS, dont have a clue as to what and how some medications react to each other, and bleeding bums may very well be one of those side affects, again, just saying. And no one really knows, or may say for sure.......this way or that way! OH HECK, not really that many years back, who the HELL thought it was possible for someone to get real sick and die from eating peanuts, but now we know this to be true, RIGHT? IS THERE anyone at all that knows all the things that all those medicines do to all of us out here, I know the ones that make them dont know all the ins and outs of every medication, and then there is the "MEDICINE INTERACTIONS"! Even doctors dont know, there is no doctor out that knows every thing about every medicine that is being created currently, and how can they. Everyone does not react to medicines the same as anyone else, and when ya add more then one to the medicines anyone is taking, the odds go up on no one knowing how a human can and will react, I am currently taking 6 different MEDS! [THAN there is also another factor here, perhaps I am not getting enough vitamin C? This also to my understanding can cause, bleeding gums, and with the WARFARIN, well, that makes it even worse, as some are saying here.]
 

pellicle

Professional Dingbat
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
10,278
Location
Queensland, OzTrayLeeYa
Get the cleaning, does not matter, still get bleeding gums. Seems I remember now someone stating they had to get off blood thinner because it was casing them this same thing, and I am here now asking, is there any others having this same problem? WOW, just found this now, and it seems that many do not know this to be true, and i figure it this way, I cannot be the only one having this problem, there was to be others! >>> {{"There are many reasons why a person's gums might bleed, and certain medications, such as blood thinners, may be to blame."}} <<< Doesnt seem to last, gums dont bleed all the time, perhaps it has something to do with the INR going up and down, and not steady, which is an almost impossible thing to do, and this is why to monitor INR is so important to check with some people at least every week or so! I am only saying, I just have to think that I am not the only one having this happen when taking WARFARIN, and I am looking for others that think it may be something else, but if it is the fault of the WARFARIN, and nothing else, and if this true, then perhaps there is also other types of bleeding that BLOOD THINNERS may cause??? I also am asking this here because of some here saying that, "blood thinners do not cause bleeding on its own", this sure seems to be the case for some people! (and if I and others are wrong, and it is true that blood thinners do not cause any type of bleeding in its own, and there has to be a reason, and the THINNERS only makes it worse, etc., I and others really to find out what the truth is, than deal with that!)
Consult your dentist with these questions
 

PeterII

Liborio
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
253
Location
Toronto
There are a few here that seem to be stating, bloodthiners do not cause bleeding, although I have also heard from those that seem to
think that is does, and in the form of bleeding gums! so my direct question here is this, and simply, is it possible for any blood thinners to be the cause of bleeding gums? ANYONE? [just asking, it doesnt hurt to ask, RIGHT?]

"For me", With INR = 3.2 yes, my GUMS will bleed when flushing, in my range of 2 - 2.5, never.
no matter what, repeat "For Me".
 

carolinemc

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
1,223
Location
kansas city, mo
I am thinking now, PERHAPS it could be a medication interaction of some sort? just a thought, I also happen to think, those that create and make all of those MEDICATIONS, dont have a clue as to what and how some medications react to each other, and bleeding bums may very well be one of those side affects, again, just saying. And no one really knows, or may say for sure.......this way or that way! OH HECK, not really that many years back, who the HELL thought it was possible for someone to get real sick and die from eating peanuts, but now we know this to be true, RIGHT? IS THERE anyone at all that knows all the things that all those medicines do to all of us out here, I know the ones that make them dont know all the ins and outs of every medication, and then there is the "MEDICINE INTERACTIONS"! Even doctors dont know, there is no doctor out that knows every thing about every medicine that is being created currently, and how can they. Everyone does not react to medicines the same as anyone else, and when ya add more then one to the medicines anyone is taking, the odds go up on no one knowing how a human can and will react, I am currently taking 6 different MEDS! [THAN there is also another factor here, perhaps I am not getting enough vitamin C? This also to my understanding can cause, bleeding gums, and with the WARFARIN, well, that makes it even worse, as some are saying here.]
Many causes to bleeding gums, not medication interaction. Depends on your numbers. And what your health status is also. Talk to your Cardio, nor Cardio nurse about what your INR unless you test at home.
 

MdaPA

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
270
Bleeding from your gums during/after daily brushing and flossing could indicate improper technique, lack of routine (at least 2 times/year) professional cleaning/exams, inflammation, infection, gum disease or some medical issue (e.g. infection, cancer, bleeding disorder). Your gums should not bleed outside of these things if they and your teeth are in good shape, wether on warfarin or not. My understanding is that warfarin would only make it harder and take longer to control and stop the bleeding once/if it starts the higher the INR level is.

For me", With INR = 3.2 yes, my GUMS will bleed when flushing, in my range of 2 - 2.5, never.
no matter what, repeat "For Me".
Perhaps your gums are bleeding when your INR is in the 2-2.5 range but not enough to notice (because it stops sooner) then when it's higher (because it bleeds more as it takes longer to stop)? Regardless, I would have it checked out by a dentist or periodontist.
 

PeterII

Liborio
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
253
Location
Toronto
Perhaps your gums are bleeding when your INR is in the 2-2.5 range but not enough to notice (because it stops sooner) then when it's higher (because it bleeds more as it takes longer to stop)? Regardless, I would have it checked out by a dentist or periodontist.

Perhaps you need eye glasses to properly read ?, For me, INR 2-2.5 there is no bleeding and not second interpretations, my 2 sisters "Doctors" are also same opinion, You seem to be confused,

Is ok, at times we get confused, but can not let your comments confuse
those asking for references about issues

And your absolute opinion, is good for you, but not for me, so it is "just" your opinion
nothing else., nothing is absolute as per XXI Century other than Speed of Light .
 

MdaPA

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Messages
270
jlcsn2015,
WOW! Didn't see that coming (even with my glasses on). I was trying to be helpful but it looks like you are having a bad day so I'll let your comments go. Anyway, sounds like you have all the answers from your "Doctor" sisters so you got everything covered.
 

sharky7

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Messages
92
Location
SOUTH FLORIDA
And a mouthful of plaque cover teeth is known to increase the risk of endocarditis.
There is no "mouthful of plaque"! where is all this coming from, someone here thinks that I am homeless or something? oh oh, just figured it out, your all jushing me, as in pulling my leg, as in being sarcastic, or something! and in that case, NM!!! LOL, there ya go we can now all have a good laugh and at my expense! i am a big boy now, I can take it, I am also a Vet!
 
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