Basic Coumadin Questions

[KristyW]

Hi everyone,

I've been watching the coumadin discussions fairly closely, and I have some questions and observations...

If a protime is only taken every 2 weeks, doesn't that only give a "snapshot" of your bloods thickness at that moment? If so, wouldn't that thickness change on a day-to-day basis depending on what you ate the previous day?

I am a person who is not willing to live on the same foods all of the time. There are times that I crave big leafy salads, and then there are days that I crave only beef. Not unusual, just a widely varied diet. Now if I have a week where salads taste particulary good, my blood thickness is going to go up because of the increased vitamin K intake, correct? How do the Doctors expect us to maintain a certain level INR unless we're willing to forego a widely varied and balanced diet? AND isn't the widely varied diet high in vegetables and grains what the American Heart Assn. plugs? It sounds like we have a very difficult balance to make.

I know that my doctor can answer (maybe) some of these questions, but I'd like all of your feedback too.

Kristy W.

 

[Hank]

Coumadin timing

Coumadin timing

Hey Kristy,

This is my guess. And it is only a guess I must stress.

Eating 1 meal of high vitamin k foods will make your INR lower starting within an hour and ending within about 6 hours.

Taking coumadin will increase your INR within about 3 hours and lasting about 24 hours.

My theory is that if I plan on having a binge of broccoli or something tomorrow night, I will take a couple extra mg's of coumadin tonight.

I don't have a machine yet so I haven't been able to prove my theory, but I think it's working ok. Sometimes I go get my blood tested when I am in the middle of one of my littlwe routines and it's always 3.0 - 4.0 which is where I want it. 4.0 is my optimal I believe.

I'm sure I'll get some feedback on this theory so we'll see.

 

[strayze]

KRISTYW,

That's the way I live too. I'm making every effort to get that INR machine ASAP. In addition to eating a varied diet, which really changes during travel, festive occassions, etc. I'm on chemotherapy which can interfere with eating. Several days without eating does wonders to the INR. So I literally force myself to eat something early in the day, just to get the pump primed to keep myself hungry and my body going. So far so good.

STRAYZE

 

[Sharon]

Basic coumadin questions

Basic coumadin questions

Hi Kristy W,
Yes, your inr changes on a daily basis, but the object of our diet is to not let it have extreme differences. You don't have to forego a healthy diet to stay within in your target zone. As you know you just have to be consistent. If you have a big salad today, tomorrow if you don't want a big salad have some equivalent amount of green vegetables. Have you gotten a printout from the coumadin site listing the Vit K content of foods? I found that to be very helpful in planning my meals. It's not as if I plan them out on a weekly basis (although that would be good) - it's just that when I sit down to eat a meal I make sure to always remember to have something green or an equivalent value food. I had my St Judes valve 4/97. Don't drive yourself crazy with your diet .
Sharon

 

[LUVMyBirman]

Hanks theory is reasonable as long as your not popping too many extra MG's when you go on a Vit K binge. Hey, you have got to live, right Hank.

Since summer has begun...have had more fluctuations in my INR. Usually upwards. (I am home testing). Guessing that the warmer weather has a thinning effect on your blood? Got a little low on vacation... but I was eating salads. Anyway, when I do enjoy my occasional salad I take an extra 1 MG of Coumadin for that day. Anything more than a MG could pop your INR up too high.

Not in anyway suggesting this should be practiced, but it works for me.

My doctor would probably not agree. They said to eat a healthy diet and I would be adjusted accordingly. This put me on a roller costar ride. It's much easier to omit the High Vit K foods and have them as a treat. Eating salad and broccoli these days is better than eating ice cream or having a drink.

 

[Perrster]

Watching Cholesterol Too.

Watching Cholesterol Too.

Gina, your comment about it being much easier to omit Vit K and have it as a treat was beautiful. I have drastically omitted greens, but I do look forward to having greens as "treats." Unfortunately, I have never seen better looking lettuce in my garden than this year!

Drinking is something I did in my "prior-life." And boy, do I miss a cold beer now and again! I experienced bleeding from the wrong faucet last summer after being in a golf outing (the beer cart was everywhere and of course, it was free!). I have since committed to an alcohol-free diet and have even found a wonderful non-alcoholic herbal beer.

I'm slowly learning dietary jargon and most recently started really concentrating on my intake of foods that affect cholesterol. This is a challenge for somebody who still doesn't understand the difference between proteins and carbohydrates. Coumadin doubles the challenge. I am now trying to decrease dairy intake and venturing into health food stores and trying Soy based products. My doctor recommended a natural path to lower my cholesterol by taking the dietary supplement-Red Yeast Rice.

Is anyone in VR.com using Red Yeast Rice?

I'm scheduled for a PT test next Tues. to see if it makes any difference to my levels. I'll let you know.

 

[Perrster]

Cholesterol Busting

Cholesterol Busting

INR dropped one point and my Pharmacist thinks it is likely due to the Coenzyme Q-10 that is in the Red Yeast Rice supplement which I started two weeks ago. Retesting in two more weeks and will update this message at that time.
Also adding 25mg daily of Soy Protein to my diet and will see what this does to the INR. My cholesterol is not outrageously high-but needs management. It sure is a challenge to change one's diet while on Coumadin!

 

[LUVMyBirman]

Hi Perry

Thanks for the update. Glad to hear things are going well for you. Regulation is difficult for sure.

Curious about your comment about drinking too much and bleeding? Sorry to hear that happened. Can you elaborate?

I do enjoy 'unwinding' a few times a month. Have not had any concerns thus far.

Take care,

 

[Sharon]

coumadin

coumadin

Hi Perry,
I've read that co-q10 should not be taken when you are on coumadin, but maybe it's not the same when you take it in the red yeast. Have you been told anything about it? I've also read that the red yeast is similar to a statin and that's why it can do a job on the cholesterol. I also take a soy protein. Mine has 20 grams of protein and 160 grams of soy isoflavones. As I understand it you need both to help you. My cholesterol went from 259 to 239 and my ldls went down too. It took me about 3 months to see any results. I am a vegetarian and eat tofu and soy milk daily too. I am now using a tblsp of flaxseed oil a day - also for the cholesterol. It too can thin the blood and I have lowered my coumadin by a tiny bit since I began using it. Have you read the book by Dr. Dean Ornish, "Reversing Heart Disease"? I went on his diet and lost 20 lbs and my cholesterol went down to 201, but as soon as I deviated back to my old ways the cholesterol and the weight went back up. If I can stick to his program it would be wonderful, but it is a tough one to be on mainly because of the diet. Good luck and let me know how the yeast is working out.

 

[Bob Gleason]

Coumdadin

Coumdadin

I have regular portions of salads usually 3-4 times a week and rarely drink alcoholic beverages. I test every 3-4 weeks and despite the fact that I had a 7.7 reading about a month ago my range has been fairly consistent.

I believe that some people have to 'work" their diet and intake of Vit K moreso than others and as you get to know how different diets affect your INR you'll be able to regulate your coumadin accordingly.

Take Hank, for example, he gives his regular doses of coumadin a Boost when he feels he has overdone his "K" intake. (Gutsy guy,that Hank.)

 

[Hank]

My Theory

My Theory

I don't know if I'm gutsy or stupid. Probably both. Next week I will be able to prove my theory as I will finally have a ProTime machine.

 

[LUVMyBirman]

Congratulations Hank!

Congratulations Hank!

Hey Hank

You will just love home testing. Peace of mind and freedom my friend!

Best of luck and keep us posted,
Gina
PS. I find that by going up 1 mg for the day if I have pigged out on high vit. k food works for me. I am not in anyway condoning this because as we know Coumadin works differently individually.

 

[Guest]

I run a Coumadin clinic. What I tell people is to eat what they like and adjust the warfarin dose around this. Nobody wants to eat the same thing every day. Everyone who has taken warfarin for awhile knows that being out of range does not mean instant disaster. If you go out and overdo it on a salad one day, then the next day choose something that is low in vitamin K for your vegetable.

I do not know of one instance inabout 12,000 patient visits where someone caused a clot by overeating vegetables once. I even had one lady who lives alone eat an entire bag of coleslaw mix in one day and come in the next day.

It is not only what your INR is but how long it stays at that level that determines if damage is done. I liken it to driving a car. If you exceed the speed limit for a short period of time nothing is likely to happen. If you set your cruise control on 90 and don't slow down ...

There are many vegetarians who take warfarin. The food charts are so that you can make an intelligent decision - not become obsessed with them