Atrial Flutter - my story........ so far

[Herb_Webb]

Hi all, I've been lurking and occassionally posting a reply here occassionallly. Recently I was asked some serious questions about my choices regarding my Atrial Flutter treatment. So here's most of my story.....

I had my mitral valve replaced with a St Jude's mechanical in 1999. Ten years later on the date of my 20th wedding anniversary I was in the local ER hooked up to monitors and IVs trying to figure out and calm down a racing heart.

For the three days prior to this every time I checked my blood pressure and heart rate, whether with my home monitor or the one at the local pharmacy, my BP was normal with a HR of 150-155. Needless to say I was tired.

I took the day off work for our anniversary and it was still racing so we decided to get it checked out. We don't have a cardiologist in town so my option was drive over an hour or check into the ER. I chose the ER. I was there three hours watching my HR bounce between 150, 50, 75, 150, 100, 50 the whole time. I was diagnose with Supra Ventricular Tachycardia and made an appointment to see a cardiologist.

The cardiologist had a cancellation and I got in the very next day. He told me I had Atrial Flutter, lots of explanations and options. The options were meds (beta blockers), electroversion, or ablation. Getting shocked could happen that day so I chose that. The result was a normal sinus rhythm........temorarily.

5 weeks later the tachycardia returned. I had the beta blockers that were prescribed just in case. So I started taking them and rescheduled with my Dr. He prescribed Atenonol and I began taking it as prescribed. I was also taking Lysinopril for high BP at the time.

Ablation was something I knew of. One of my best friends had several done. For him it was lifesaving and life changing. For me this was not desirable....at this time in my life. My symptoms were minor compared to what he went thru.

So I began a journey of discovery to find something else that would work. I contacted an accupuncturist, a retired chiropractor who is also a nutritionist and talked to anyone that I thought might have a reasonable answer. I avoided what appeared to be "to good to be true" quickee cures like bracelets from Mars, crystals or pyramids.

The first success I had was with diet. I went on a diet known as food combining. The principles being that proper combinations lead to better digestion and better health. After one month I had lost 10 lbs and my BP began to drop. So I began to reduce my Lysinopril gradually. At two months I was down 20 lbs and had normal BP without meds for the first time in 11 years. Three months and I was down 33 lbs from 215 to 182 and went in for my annual checkup.

Dr confirmed that my BP was normal and had no issue that I had quit, especially since he knew that was my desire all along and I had done it in a responsible gradual way. I told him I was planning to try the same with the Atenonol for my arrhythmia. He said to keep him posted but it was OK if I tried it and kept track of it. When my blood work came back all my important numbers of cholestrol, triglycerides etc were better than the year before.

Two months later I was no longer taking Atenonol and my heart rate was consistently between 58 and 72 bpm at rest. When I exercised it rose normally and once I stopped it was back to normal within 30 minutes. This was the norm for about 9 months.

All was good or so it appeared until job stress and my fixation on certain things led me to quit eating the food combining way. I went for comfort foods at lunch, but still maintained the diet at home and weekends. Over 6 monts I gained back 12 lbs and the tachycardia returned. I still had the Atenonol and began taking it again.

My most recent annual checkup led to an echo and an app't to my cardiologist. Three months after the echo I got in to the cardiologist. He made it sound like nothing changed, same talk I got in 2009 about options. He was pleased that I no longer needed BP meds and had little problem with my desire to quit beta blockers as long as I was responsible about it.

Then we got the call that he had read my echo after my appointment (even though that is why I went to see him and I got billed for it). Now they want me on a cocktail of three drugs as preventative medicine. The explanation was that I was OK for now but it appeared my heart had begun deteriorating this would make me healthier 20 years from now.

About this time my monthly visit to our advisor, resulted in our introduction to Dr. Sherry Rogers book the High Blood Pressure Hoax and Magnesium supplements for irregular heartbeats. We bought the Mg supplement that day and began and I ordered the books on Amazon.com that night.

A month later and my Atrial Flutter (by my experience and feelings) have reduced significantly. It has not gone away but I am convinced that there are other causes to cardiac conditions rather than a deficiency of drugs.

I do not totally disregard modern medicine because without it and a St Jude's valve I would be 6 feet under now. But by my own experiences the past two years I have enough personal experience to continue this journey. Whether that is better nutrition, supplements, exercise, fasting (which I do intermittently), or a detox program for accumulated toxins I will continue. And I will keep my Dr informed as I go down this path.

Thanks for all who are here, I enjoy your stories and wish everyone the best of health regardless of whether we walk the same path.

have fun
Herb

 

[Bryan B]

Herb PM'd me and this is my response. I am not copying his original PM out of respect but I am posting my response because I would have posted the same thing here whether it was a PM or not. I admit that I made a few edits but they were for spelling and grammatical reasons.

Yes and your answers were bullchit. If your recommendation was so great you would not have "reduced" your A-Flutter you would have been relieved of it. The ablation RELIEVED me of my A-Flutter...not reduced it. It may help prevent A-Fib/Flutter and it may help with the symptoms as well, but it WILL NOT CURE YOU unless you may happen to have sporadic episodes. Don't give people who have chronic A-Fib/Flutter false hope that there is something "beyond" the traditional method to get them back into normal sinus rhythm. Not only does it give them false hope but it could endanger their lives. I am all for new treatments that will eliminate invasive treatments or medications that could be dangerous, but I am just as against giving advice to people that has not been medically proven to be true. If magnesium had been medically proven to eliminate A-Fib or A-Flutter then there would be no reason for the other methods because magnesium would be safer, less expensive, and work as well as the other methods right? So it must be a conspiracy so that doctors can charge paitents / insurance companies more to do these expensive procedures or put them on expensive medications that need monitoring. I am sorry but I am calling your bluff here. You still have not given me any data from your sources that show that any methods you mention will cure A-Fib/A-Flutter at all much less better than traditional treatment.

BTW I know this is a PM but I am going to post it on the threads in question as well because I would type the same thing there so why not just copy it? Like I said I have been a member here for a long time and I feel an obligation to speak up when I need to. I believe wholeheartedly that magnesium and other methods work well in preventing A-Fib/A-Flutter, and they may even help people who only have occasional bouts of it, but I absolutely do not believe that magnesium will bring anyone out of chronic A-Fib/A-Flutter.

 

[Bryan B]

I just wanted to apologize to Herb in responding to him in the way I did. While we seem to have a difference of opinion concerning this matter I should have kept the debate more civil.

 

[Bryan B]

I also want to apologize to Wanda as this is probably the last thing you need to read right before you go in for your ablation. Obviously I think you know where I stand and that I think you are doing the right thing, and I think you are going to instantly feel so much better when they finish your ablation...at least that was my experience and that is what I am hoping for you.

 

[Herb_Webb]

Thanks for the apology Bryan.

I wish the best for everyone regardless of their choices.

I just appreciate the opportunity that this site allows. Not too many in the general population can relate to living with a replaced valve so its great that we can come together, share our stories and support each other in what can be some very confusing and difficult choices.

Herb

 

[Michelle D]

I get short spurts of atrial flutter in the morning sometimes and I have discovered that it seems to correlate to how late I ate the night before. I usually go to sleep around midnight, if I eat past 8 pm I wake up with the flutters, if I don't eat I don't have them. Also things that cause heartburn or indigestion in me cause flutters.

 

[Lynlw]

Herb, I thought you might be interested in this recent article/study http://www.theheart.org/article/1203131.do
Half of all AF due to avoidable risk factors

Half of all cases of atrial fibrillation (AF) are due to cardiovascular risk factors such as hypertension, diabetes, obesity, and smoking, new research shows [1]. And it's not just those with obviously high levels who are at risk, but even those with borderline BP, blood glucose, and body-mass indexes (BMIs), say the researchers, whose findings, from the Atherosclerosis Risk in Communities (ARIC) study, are published online March 28, 2011 in Circulation.

Hypertension was the strongest predictor of AF, accounting for almost a quarter of all cases if borderline BPs were included.

"Our study shows that AF is preventable through encouraging individuals to adopt and maintain healthy diet and lifestyles, the same as for other forms of cardiovascular disease," lead author Dr Rachel R Huxley (University of Minnesota, MN) told heartwire. ...

This is only the second study to attempt to quantify the burden of AF resulting from major and modifiable risk factors," say Huxley and colleagues. The previous study, based on the Framingham cohort, found that smoking, diabetes, hypertension, and prevalent CHD combined explained 44% of the burden in men and 58% in women, figures that are "broadly comparable to those in the present study," they observe.

And the fact that the new study seeks to quantify the burden of AF resulting from having borderline, rather than just elevated, levels of risk factors is an "important consideration, given that a significant proportion of the population has suboptimal BP, levels of blood glucose, and BMIs," the researchers point out....
(more at link)

 

[normofthenorth]

I find this thread terrific, and I thank you all for it. But I'm reminded of an old commercial for Certs: "It's a candy mint! No, it's a breath mint! STOP, you're BOTH right!"

I think that "the whole truth" is probably complex and nuanced enough to agree with almost everything that Herb and Bryan BOTH said, despite the apparent disagreements. If Lyn's studies are right, and around half of AF cases respond to changes in health and lifestyle like diet and weight loss and magnesium, etc. -- including relatively small changes -- then it's reasonable that it includes most of Herb's AF, but not lots of other people's (in the OTHER half), especially those who have more chronic and serious AF, as Bryan suggests.

My approach would be, where possible, to start with the cheap and easy and otherwise-beneficial cures first, and save the more expensive and scarier ones for later.

I really love Herb's snarky "I am convinced that there are other causes to cardiac conditions rather than a deficiency of drugs"! But despite its apparent dismissal of modern medicine, even this bit of clever bluntness leaves the door open for drugs (and other medical treatments) as part of the cure.

And who knows, as we investigate more alternatives to drugs and current treatments, we may find more things that work, or help. The flip side is that most medical interventions are not strongly evidence-based, or subjected to rigorous randomized double-blind testing, the way drugs are (and we can all remember catastrophic drug boo-boos, despite the testing). As I've reported elsewhere, the cardiologist from my Cardio Rehab clinic is convinced that cardioversion is on the way out as a treatment for AF, because it basically doesn't work except for a short while. And a show of hands among the 50-ish patients in my incoming "class" reinforced that view, since 4 out of 5 patients who'd had cardioversion had their AF return -- and the 5th one was "still young"!

 

[Herb_Webb]

Glad to see that my and Bryan's disagreements didn't discourage folks from joining in. We had a couple of heartfelt PM back and forth, and we both feel strongly based on the positive experiences, although different, that we each have had.

Lynn thanks for the info on other factors. I'll read that article it sounds interesting.

Normofthenorth, I had a successful short term electrocution (what they call cardioversion) for my AF. It lasted a good 5 weeks before my heart started racing again. And for the record, yes I do take medications, when needed, (because they are part of the cure). But I'll continure to try to figure out what else is going on, with a goal of not needing them. I was on Vasotec and then Lysinopril for over 10 years for high BP and was on Atenenol for AF for 6 months until I got a diet that worked and my weight right that brought my BP to normal and my heart rhythm into a normal range. Both GP and cardiologist agreed I didn't need the meds at that time. Right now due to stress related poor diet and weight gain my arryhthmia flared up again, BP is OK. So I fell off my own wagon. Until I return to a better weight with my once again healthier diet I will follow, with reluctance, the medical advice and take ??? I'm having brain fog at the moment. Anyway some drugs that are supposed make me better. What I really don't like this time is they want me to take 3. Plus I take warfarin 'cause of the mechanical valve.

You ever wonder why they call what Doctors do "Medical Practice"........just like us they are just practicing. Since we are all different and respond in different ways to treatments, all they and we can do is practice until we figure it out.

Best of health to everyone
Herb

 

[Herb_Webb]

it seems to correlate to how late I ate the night before. if I eat past 8 pm I wake up with the flutters, if I don't eat I don't have them. Also things that cause heartburn or indigestion in me cause flutters.

Come to think of it when my AF is at its worst is when I have eaten sweets. I try to avoid them are a "general" rule, but occassionally binge. I wish I could say that I can "eat just one" when it comes to certain treats. Anyway I'll have to pay more attention to this. The 5 months that my heart rate was normal and I couldn't detect any flutter was the time that I ate no candy, ice cream, drank pop etc. Yeah I have a hard time believing I did that for 5 months too.

Thanks for that reminder.
Herb

 

[Bina]

I take a low dose of Metoprolol, but have noticed a strong heart reaction to stress and diet.
Eating salt is bad news, and any kind of slightly large meal is bad news. No eating after dinner either.
Of course: no smoking, no booze, no sugar drinks, no crappy restaurant foods.
I do eat cookies, a bit of ice cream or frozen yogurt, and small treats randomly. Gotta live, right ?

 

[Herb_Webb]

Gotta live, right ?

Definitely

 

[LeakyUK]

On a recent hospital visit I met someone with a great story who had regular appointments to have his heart shocked and slowed down. It looks like a case for a reverse pacemaker to be invented!