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Agian

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Jun 10, 2013
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Adelaide, South Australia
Protime, I think we do agree.

In Australia, politics tends to be about ideology, not about individuals. On a more mundane level, you could still vote for a party, but think the Prime Minister (or in your case President) is a douche. For us, politicians are merely public servants filling a role.

So if a President does something personally 'off' then criticizing this behaviour would not be considered 'politics'. The Lewinski scandal isn't 'politics'. For Americans the divide (and it's getting wider) has to do with conservatives vs. liberals. I dont see how a particular politician's willie is 'politics', any more than criticizing the behaviour of a the Spice Girls. Ya follow?

In regards to 'medical types'. My personal journey has been an eye opener. I've had two angiographies my current cardiologist thinks were unnecessary. During the first one I had a minor heart attack. He hinted that these things are a money spinner. My first reaction was nooooo. But now I'm not so sure. There are greedy people everywhere. If they're touting an agenda claiming it's in the patients' interests, but really it's about money, then that's just wrong.
 

Protimenow

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California
Agian - I didn't realize that you're in Australia.

Like you, I've also had two angiograms. After the first, in 2001 or 2002, the cardio said that my coronary arteries were clear, and that I'll never have a heart attack.

He made up a reason - describing symptoms that I wasn't experiencing to justify the procedure - and, again, gave me a completely clean bill of health.

This procedure IS a money maker - but also can be a life saver for someone who actually needs it.

You seem to be right about the political divide widening here in the United States. Although the divide is widening, it seems as if there are a lot more on one side of the divide than there are on the other (at least I hope so).

I'm not sure how much Presidential misbehavior can be considered non-political. This position helps to act as a moral compass for many of us, and presents a picture of our country to the rest of the world, based on the behavior - moods - political statements - response to crises - of our leader. I fear that we've been getting a very bad impression globally, due the the misbehavior of this world leader.

The Monica Lewinsky thing resulted in a political battle - the impeachment of the president over what may have been considered lies to Congress. I won't get into too much politics here, but in the United States, a President, or other government official can be impeached for 'high crimes and misdemeanors.' The current occupant of the White House has a long record of misbehavior, violation of what is called 'emoluments clause' (profiting from his office - which he continues to do on a daily basis), obstruction of justice, and many other impeachable actions. Unfortunately, politics comes in here---if the House of Representatives votes to recommend impeachment, the Senate would hold a 'trial' -- but a Republican Senate would almost predictably acquit. This may harm the party whose majority in the House votes to impeach - and may have a negative impact on the 2020 elections.

We've had Senators (Al Franken was one) who were forced to resign over alleged misbehavior with women many years ago. We've had at least one Supreme Court Justice forced to resign (Abe Fortas) for a misbehavior that long since left my memory. Some Cabinet nominees have been forced to withdraw from consideration because of past bad acts, and recent Cabinet members forced out for incompetence, misuse of Government resources, histories of lobbying for Foreign Governments, and other reasons. These all became political.

So - what I'm saying is that, in the United States, at least, behavior DOES often equate to politics.
 

FredW

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Dec 16, 2015
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243
Location
Rochester Mills, PA
take the politics out of here and leave the heart talk here instead.
I support you on this. It is not fair to highjack the post to discuss another agenda. I know it is not intentional and often a result of being caught up in trying to make a point, local news, or humor. But, we should be sensitive to the author of the tread and take our humor and opinions off topic elsewhere.

I have been guilty of this and when I do, please call me out on it.

Have a great day and I'm not going over to the thread titled "Staying the course" to post my thoughts on other issues.
 

Agian

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Messages
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Location
Adelaide, South Australia
Protime, you are right about the 'moral compass'. Is 'political' the same as 'politics'? I don't know. It is important to be objective and not let our political views cloud our assessment of people we meet. This is why there is so much friction.

Protime, would you be willing to support me regaining my Colonies?

Fred, I respect your opinion, but humour and laughter is what keeps some of us from crying. A smartarse comment here and there can be ignored, if it's not appreciated.
 
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Protimenow

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California
Agian:

I wasn't aware that Australia HAD colonies.

I thought it WAS once a colony, and is now a self-governing, self-regulating independent country that, for whatever reason, is still a part of a commonwealth.

Here in America, although we're not a part of Great Britain - there's STILL a hell of a lot of attention given to British Royalty, and a lot of interest in what goes on there.
 

carolinemc

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kansas city, mo
Nobody should start a thread expecting to be able to control the direction that it's going to take. Unless you're the forum administrator, and can have some control over the content, it just doesn't happen that way. Threads go the way that they'll go. It's hard to control them, once they get started.

Agian -- most doctors DO advocate for their patients -- but they ALSO advocate for their wallets. The American Medical Association (AMA), and other medical organizations have lobbyists who, arguably, advocate for their patients (but the reality doesn't always seem to bear this out). (You already said this - that 'certain medical-types sabotage anything that doesn't suit them '). I don't know how we can overcome this problem.

Medical practice has become extremely specialized - partly because specialists spend time learning intricacies related to their specialty - and charging more for the privilege of being seen by them -- but many medical issues can (or should) be seen by primary care, and then referred to a specialist, if necessary. (I know that some plans require this, so perhaps this comment is somewhat off base. I'm guilty of self-referring to a specialist when I knew that I need specialty services, or I was dissatisfied with the care I got from my PCP, so I'm guilty of , perhaps, increasing the cost of care). I once had an ingrown toenail on a toe on my right foot. I saw a specialty physician, but he refused to treat me because he only handles toenails on the LEFT foot. (Okay, this isn't exactly true).

My point - money and lobbies -- even representing organizations that are supposed to 'advocate' for the patient, sometimes seem to advocate more for their members than for the patients who they treat.

I guess I'm affirming your statement - that if doctors advocated more for their patients, perhaps changes would be made.

However, I strongly believe that the medical insurance companies, drug manufacturers, and related lobbies have too strong a hold on Congress -- even with clinicians advocating for their patients, change is unlikely. The current occupant of the White House made promises during his election, yet he's been working against the medical interests of those who voted for him.

The only majorities that count to many in Congress and in the Executive Branch are the ones with the most money, and the strongest lobbies. What does it matter WHAT the majority wants, or what is best for the people, if the lobbies aren't kept happy?

Sorry, Agian - In some ways, we're in partial agreement. I'm trying to figure out what you meant when you wrote 'you guys,' but you may answer this in another post that is off the original subject of this thread.

This is the way I see our lack of progress in protecting our population, and in providing health care to all who need it. I don't see this changing for quite a while -- even if clinicians advocate for it, or if much of the population demands it.

Hell, we can't even control the sale of guns that didn't exist at the time that the Second Amendment was written. If we can't get the Senate Majority Leader to put a gun ownership measure, passed by members of the House of Representatives from both parties, what the hell chance do we have of creating a health care system that actually works for everyone?


FWIW - I don't like hugs - except from dogs.
I know you were talking about me. I did not start this to make a political statement. Nor about insurance companies. Need to keep with the subject at hand, heart disease, Surgery and recovery. enough of the political talk. We need to stay on subject, by keeping the politics out of it. To stressful. And I will hug anyone, including you, honey.
So hugs for today, Protimenow. And have a nice day. :)
 

carolinemc

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kansas city, mo
Agian:

I wasn't aware that Australia HAD colonies.

I thought it WAS once a colony, and is now a self-governing, self-regulating independent country that, for whatever reason, is still a part of a commonwealth.

Here in America, although we're not a part of Great Britain - there's STILL a hell of a lot of attention given to British Royalty, and a lot of interest in what goes on there.
Actually Australia was a British Penal colony in the beginning. You can look it up. Hugs for today, Protime.
 

Protimenow

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I repeat.

When a person starts a thread, they have no idea (and should have no control over) where it's going to go.

Just because you start the thread doesn't mean you can dictate what it will devolve into.

Perhaps you should start a new thread, with a similar subject, and maybe it won't jump into politics.

(If I had a dog, I'd give it a hug on your behalf - and then one for myself)
 

carolinemc

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Messages
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kansas city, mo
I repeat.

When a person starts a thread, they have no idea (and should have no control over) where it's going to go.

Just because you start the thread doesn't mean you can dictate what it will devolve into.

Perhaps you should start a new thread, with a similar subject, and maybe it won't jump into politics.

(If I had a dog, I'd give it a hug on your behalf - and then one for myself)
Chill out, stop repeating yourself. Just relax. Okay. I give you friendship hugs today. :cool:😇
 

Protimenow

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Messages
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California
I only repeat myself when it seems like I wasn't heard the first time.

I have no time to relax or chill - there are too many worries and too much **** going on. I don't even know why I'm spending so much time at this site (except that it makes me feel like I may be helping people now and then).
 

carolinemc

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Messages
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Location
kansas city, mo
I only repeat myself when it seems like I wasn't heard the first time.

I have no time to relax or chill - there are too many worries and too much **** going on. I don't even know why I'm spending so much time at this site (except that it makes me feel like I may be helping people now and then).
You do, and you love sparing with me. LOL! Relax with a good book tonight. :cool:(y)
 

Protimenow

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I'm not into sparring. But, yes, we do have our disagreements.

At night my wife and I binge watch a few old shows. We've seen some so many times that we know a lot of the dialog. It's interesting, though, sometimes we still pick up little visual stuff that we may have missed. (And I like watching clocks on some of these shows - the continuity people don't always figure that anyone will see that, for example, kids are arrested after school, but the clock at the police station shows 12:15. Either their school day ended in the morning,, or it took eight hours to drive them to the police station.)

I like books, too - but want to spend my time more effectively - and usually don't.
 

Agian

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Jun 10, 2013
Messages
2,177
Location
Adelaide, South Australia
Agian:

I wasn't aware that Australia HAD colonies.

I thought it WAS once a colony, and is now a self-governing, self-regulating independent country that, for whatever reason, is still a part of a commonwealth.

Here in America, although we're not a part of Great Britain - there's STILL a hell of a lot of attention given to British Royalty, and a lot of interest in what goes on there.
Ahh, now you're talking. I was indeed referring to America. I used to be your king, but it didn't work out. I was hoping you could help me sort things out.
 

Protimenow

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California
WARNING WARNING WARNING -- Political Speech ahead. Proceed at your own risk.

It looks like our leader is trying hard to become king.

END OF Political Speech.

Return to what you were doing. ALL CLEAR
 
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