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Warrick

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Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
504
Location
New Zealand
Here in nz our taxes cover it and we dont have over infated costs, I think avr is something like $70k compared to some things Iv read are 200k and up, its not full proof and theres waiting lists with people dying on them, but there is private insurance if you are inclined and can afford it.
I started working part time when I was 12 so I think I would have paid enough tax in 30 yrs to cover it. But then we dont spend much on a defence force these days and our roads are full of pot holes... sigh
 

carolinemc

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Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
717
Location
kansas city, mo
Whatever happened to paying our own bills? Remember if we dont pay our bills someone else is! Nothing is free!

Medicare is pre paid insurance. If you have paid enough over the years that is great. If not then the rest of us are paying the bill.
We do pay our bills, just not everyone is rich here and sometimes you have to let the bills go in order to survive, like my great-grandparents did before there was Social Security, for pensions way back in the day never carried you all the years after retirement. I know nothing is free, for I worked for over 40 years of my life and got disabled. I have to live on my SSDI, and it does not always cover the 20% that medicare does not pay. And I can't get Medcaid for the moment for the backpay I got from waiting on SSDI to start.
No one ever said in here that medical care was free, NO ONE! And to educate one who does not know, Medicare only covers 80% of the medical costs, you, me, and everyone else on Medicare has to foot out the rest. And our retirement and SSDi checks do not cover the 20% we have to pay. Never get me started on the uneducated who think that Medicare covers everything, does not, and we paid into it during our working lives.
 

carolinemc

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Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
717
Location
kansas city, mo
Politics and insulting other countries is not the purpose of this board.

To set you right, the American president is not held in awe like the british queen. We get rid of our leaders at least every 8-years. Our president is not the head of our state religion, like the queen is. Not sure of who "li'll Elvis" is, but that's probably an insult to the "King of Rock and Roll" as well.
You have forgotten, we have elections every 4 years, not 8 years. I can't go further ont this. I will have a tirade. LMAO!
 

carolinemc

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Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
717
Location
kansas city, mo
Tom, where's the insult? They asked Washington if he wanted to be king. That's all people knew at the time.
Your comments indicate you don't like being compared to the British. Fair enough. But if you look at the back of Australian coins... you guessed it. So if my comment was meant as an insult, it would be hypocritical.

As for politics, I don't know what you're talking about. Li'll Elvis is what Clinton called his... , which I am pretty sure was apolitical. I suspect he liked Elvis so much, he named it after him.

I'm a big Elvis fan too, aka the 'king of rock and roll', but I don't revere him the way the British revere their monarch, or the way the abovementioned gentleman revered his genitalia. So, when you say that I was 'probably' insulting him as well, you seem to be flailing to find something to criticise me about.

I find it fascinating the way you grafted your own political views onto an allegation I was insulting your country. I guess I am entitled to opinions, as long as they're the right ones. I suspect you might have led it 'slide' if I 'insulted' your current president. I won't be voting in your elections, so please don't blame me for any results.

Happy to engage in further 'debate'. You'll lose. I'm probably a bigger fan of your country than a lot of your compatriots. So, save your faux rage for someone else.
Everyone can insult the President of the United States, Mr. Donald Trump. for I have done it daily since he took oath of office. We are entitled to express our opinions, even thought Donald would disagree and then finger point and insult someone. Truth to those might disagree, that is what makes America great, we can agree top disagree.
 

Agian

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Joined
Jun 10, 2013
Messages
2,236
Location
Adelaide, South Australia
This is what I have difficulty understanding, Caroline... and it's a cultural difference. Our politicians are the butt of jokes. They're just regular people with grandiose titles, so we like to take them down a peg, or two.

The stuff with li'll Elvis is well known. How is that even remotely politics?

Then there are 'values' and this is different again.

What I've noticed is that the same people who say 'don't talk politics' often find a way to make snide remarks about their perceived opponents. I've seen it a few times here.

Anyways, I'm a bit anxious around this time of year. You people took my colonies away from me. I treated you well and you ended up rebelling against my Majesty. I am willing to negotiate the terms of your surrender with Sarah Palin.
 

carolinemc

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Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
717
Location
kansas city, mo
This is what I have difficulty understanding, Caroline... and it's a cultural difference. Our politicians are the butt of jokes. They're just regular people with grandiose titles, so we like to take them down a peg, or two.

The stuff with li'll Elvis is well known. How is that even remotely politics?

Then there are 'values' and this is different again.

What I've noticed is that the same people who say 'don't talk politics' often find a way to make snide remarks about their perceived opponents. I've seen it a few times here.

Anyways, I'm a bit anxious around this time of year. You people took my colonies away from me. I treated you well and you ended up rebelling against my Majesty. I am willing to negotiate the terms of your surrender with Sarah Palin.
What people are you referring to, cause America was a Colony before it became a country. We never took any colonies from Australia. Best you get a refresher course on your country's history. America was a colony of the UK. We fought the British and won.
And never say anything about the blonde bimbo Sarah Pailin, she knows nothing but where she can see Russia from her back yard. So please get your information straight, for America did not take any colonies from Australia, England did that.
 

carolinemc

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Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
717
Location
kansas city, mo
I am George III. The colonies all belong to me.

Sarah Palin isn't blonde. I will discuss the matter, when she signs the surrender.
Palin Doe not have to be an actual blonde to be a dumb blonde, LOL!. Thanks for remembering George 3rd. People do not look up history these days. You have a great week. Hugs for today.
 

Protimenow

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Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
2,765
Location
California
Marv:
I think it may be called socialism -- and socialism is rampant throughout our country. It's a socialist idea to pave our roads, put in traffic controls, operate many things that we don't even think about. Taking money from the people and using it to make our communities work, is socialism.
Yes, Medicare is an insurance program that everyone pays into while they work, either as taxes deducted from earnings, or other taxes (SSI self-employment tax, for example). When we reach the age or disability that enable us to qualify for Medicare, most people use it).

For people who can't afford medical care, yes, somebody else pays for it -- or the people who need medical care JUST DON'T GET IT.

FWIW - many hospitals make a hell of a lot of money, and they include in their budgets (and fees) moneys necessary to help those who can't pay. It's already there.

FWIW 2 - failure to receive preventive care or to diagnose and treat illnesses when they're just forming costs a LOT less than treating people who neglected these issues. Providing care to people when they first get sick or display symptoms is sound policy. If 'we' pay for the care of these poor indigents or underinsured early, it'll cost us a lot less than it would if 'we' have to pay for more extensive procedures later.

FWIW 3 - In California, our version of Medicaid (called MediCal)s an odd program. They'll pay for care, or pay to supplement Social Security, but it's only a LOAN. Once a covered person dies, the state will go through the person's assets, and extract payment FIRST from whatever they can find. It isn't a GIFT. Its deferred payment. Personally, it's a no-win -- I can't afford a Medicare Supplement, but monthly deductibles (state 'Share of Cost' is about $1600 a month). The solution is to put stuff off as long as possible. MediCal is a supplement that will only help if my costs are MORE THAN about 8 months of supplemental insurance. In other words - my wife and I are screwed. And YOU are not paying for it.
 

Agian

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Jun 10, 2013
Messages
2,236
Location
Adelaide, South Australia
Health care appears to be America's Achilles heel. I sincerely hope you find a solution. People shouldn't have to remortgage their house if they get sick. What politicians need to understand is that a healthy population is more productive to the economy. Not that long ago some were opposed to public education, as well.

I mean guys, think about it. Taxpayers pay for the salaries of thousands of politicians and petty bureaucrats. You think of all the other crap our taxes pay for. We recently had some parasitic bureaucrat squandering tax-payer money on four figure lunches with political cronies. The classic is when they decide to increase the salaries of politicians, there's no political debate.

Your prez said he liked Australia's health care system.
 
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Protimenow

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Aug 10, 2010
Messages
2,765
Location
California
Agian - if the legislators had to put up with the health coverage that mere mortals struggle with, perhaps some of the most well paid off among them would start to care. The lobbies seem to own many of those most closely involved with medical and prescription coverage.

Four figure lunches are certainly a bad thing - how about a six figure military parade? How about spending millions of dollars each time the president wants to spend a few days golfing in Florida? I'm not entirely sorry about bringing politics into this -- but these things are obvious, healthcare is primarily for those who can afford it (or can afford good coverage), and things continue to spiral downward.
 

carolinemc

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Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
717
Location
kansas city, mo
Marv:
I think it may be called socialism -- and socialism is rampant throughout our country. It's a socialist idea to pave our roads, put in traffic controls, operate many things that we don't even think about. Taking money from the people and using it to make our communities work, is socialism.
Yes, Medicare is an insurance program that everyone pays into while they work, either as taxes deducted from earnings, or other taxes (SSI self-employment tax, for example). When we reach the age or disability that enable us to qualify for Medicare, most people use it).

For people who can't afford medical care, yes, somebody else pays for it -- or the people who need medical care JUST DON'T GET IT.

FWIW - many hospitals make a hell of a lot of money, and they include in their budgets (and fees) moneys necessary to help those who can't pay. It's already there.

FWIW 2 - failure to receive preventive care or to diagnose and treat illnesses when they're just forming costs a LOT less than treating people who neglected these issues. Providing care to people when they first get sick or display symptoms is sound policy. If 'we' pay for the care of these poor indigents or underinsured early, it'll cost us a lot less than it would if 'we' have to pay for more extensive procedures later.

FWIW 3 - In California, our version of Medicaid (called MediCal)s an odd program. They'll pay for care, or pay to supplement Social Security, but it's only a LOAN. Once a covered person dies, the state will go through the person's assets, and extract payment FIRST from whatever they can find. It isn't a GIFT. Its deferred payment. Personally, it's a no-win -- I can't afford a Medicare Supplement, but monthly deductibles (state 'Share of Cost' is about $1600 a month). The solution is to put stuff off as long as possible. MediCal is a supplement that will only help if my costs are MORE THAN about 8 months of supplemental insurance. In other words - my wife and I are screwed. And YOU are not paying for it.
On the Medcaid, every state has that same thing, when you die, they will so through everything you claim to own. That is why many turn to renting a home, selling the car, and curl up. So sad that medical care come to this in the USA. So sad for you too, Protimenow, it is hard on everyone who has a chronic illness, worse for those with birth defects. Sad indeed.
 

Agian

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Jun 10, 2013
Messages
2,236
Location
Adelaide, South Australia
No worries Protime. You guys seem to define 'politics' differently to us. I was simply talking about healthcare and politicians in general.

I think you may be right about the self-serving lobby groups. I see it like this. If the so-called experts insist on something, it's easy to see why they would get their way. Doctors should do the right thing and advocate for the patients. Then you'd see things change. They might end up with less money, but they'd sleep better at night. I can't see the prez saying no to thousands of clinicians with an actual workable plan. A guy I know whose dad is a doctor in the US told me certain medical-types sabotage anything that doesn't suit them. There's your problem.
 

carolinemc

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Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
717
Location
kansas city, mo
No worries Protime. You guys seem to define 'politics' differently to us. I was simply talking about healthcare and politicians in general.

I think you may be right about the self-serving lobby groups. I see it like this. If the so-called experts insist on something, it's easy to see why they would get their way. Doctors should do the right thing and advocate for the patients. Then you'd see things change. They might end up with less money, but they'd sleep better at night. I can't see the prez saying no to thousands of clinicians with an actual workable plan. A guy I know whose dad is a doctor in the US told me certain medical-types sabotage anything that doesn't suit them. There's your problem.
Most doctors here in the US do advocate for the patient. What make medical care so hard to get at times is in the White House, politicians and the President. It used to be harder with old system where if you had high blood pressure, heart disease, cancer, you could lose your private medical insurance. Many adults and children died from curable diseases, but without medical coverage, you were as good as dead. That is the problem, politicians in Washington, Dc, and been this way for many years. I am finished with the political talk, for it is a broken record in America. Can't keep talking about it, hurts too much.
 

carolinemc

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Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
717
Location
kansas city, mo
So sad that my message of getting used to the Medicare life ended up as a platform for Politics. We come in here to learn from personal experiences from heart conditions, not politics. So please, keep the politics out of here. I just wanted to share my changes in my life in the health care of my health issues, not political debates. SO please people, take the politics out of here and leave the heart talk here instead. You all made me cry when it you had to make it political, no matter what country you are from.

I had an new experience, the new PC doctor had me take a HIV test. I would have known by now if I had HIV or Aids, cause I had a blood transfusion in 1973. Many years ago. I told the doctor that I was not a needle user nor sexually active to get HIV, at 54 years of age. But i did anyway to keep the doctor happy, wasting my medicare for a useless test. Anyone else every had to get a HIV blood test 40+ years after surgery. I wonder. Hugs for everyone and no more political talk, keep it out. OKAY!
 

SumoRunner

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Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Messages
925
Location
Latham, NY
At the time I had my AVR, 1991, the blood supply was often tainted with HIV since it was all so new then and testing for it was chancy, so I was given the option of autologous blood donation. That is, drawing your own blood weeks in advance, and storing it for re-transfusing after surgery. Having been very active, running, racing, lifting, shot put, etc., I was able to put up 4 pints in 4 weeks and still be strong enough to face open heart surgery. It was costly, but I did get it all back.
 

Protimenow

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Aug 10, 2010
Messages
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Location
California
Nobody should start a thread expecting to be able to control the direction that it's going to take. Unless you're the forum administrator, and can have some control over the content, it just doesn't happen that way. Threads go the way that they'll go. It's hard to control them, once they get started.

Agian -- most doctors DO advocate for their patients -- but they ALSO advocate for their wallets. The American Medical Association (AMA), and other medical organizations have lobbyists who, arguably, advocate for their patients (but the reality doesn't always seem to bear this out). (You already said this - that 'certain medical-types sabotage anything that doesn't suit them '). I don't know how we can overcome this problem.

Medical practice has become extremely specialized - partly because specialists spend time learning intricacies related to their specialty - and charging more for the privilege of being seen by them -- but many medical issues can (or should) be seen by primary care, and then referred to a specialist, if necessary. (I know that some plans require this, so perhaps this comment is somewhat off base. I'm guilty of self-referring to a specialist when I knew that I need specialty services, or I was dissatisfied with the care I got from my PCP, so I'm guilty of , perhaps, increasing the cost of care). I once had an ingrown toenail on a toe on my right foot. I saw a specialty physician, but he refused to treat me because he only handles toenails on the LEFT foot. (Okay, this isn't exactly true).

My point - money and lobbies -- even representing organizations that are supposed to 'advocate' for the patient, sometimes seem to advocate more for their members than for the patients who they treat.

I guess I'm affirming your statement - that if doctors advocated more for their patients, perhaps changes would be made.

However, I strongly believe that the medical insurance companies, drug manufacturers, and related lobbies have too strong a hold on Congress -- even with clinicians advocating for their patients, change is unlikely. The current occupant of the White House made promises during his election, yet he's been working against the medical interests of those who voted for him.

The only majorities that count to many in Congress and in the Executive Branch are the ones with the most money, and the strongest lobbies. What does it matter WHAT the majority wants, or what is best for the people, if the lobbies aren't kept happy?

Sorry, Agian - In some ways, we're in partial agreement. I'm trying to figure out what you meant when you wrote 'you guys,' but you may answer this in another post that is off the original subject of this thread.

This is the way I see our lack of progress in protecting our population, and in providing health care to all who need it. I don't see this changing for quite a while -- even if clinicians advocate for it, or if much of the population demands it.

Hell, we can't even control the sale of guns that didn't exist at the time that the Second Amendment was written. If we can't get the Senate Majority Leader to put a gun ownership measure, passed by members of the House of Representatives from both parties, what the hell chance do we have of creating a health care system that actually works for everyone?


FWIW - I don't like hugs - except from dogs.
 
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