A tale of Endocarditas and valve replacement.

Help Support ValveReplacement.org:

carolinemc

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
689
Location
kansas city, mo
Caroline, Ottagal didn’t say it reduced previous infection in teeth or gums. She said it reduced the overall bacteria count found in the mouth.
Mouthwash does not get rid of bacteria that is already in the mouth, gums, and teeth. You can still have bacteria in the teeth and gums and it will go down to the heart. I should know since I take premed before even a cleaning. Mouthwash only make the breath cleaner, does not clean out the bacteria that is already set in the mouth.
 

pellicle

Professional Dingbat
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,393
Location
Queensland, OzTrayLeeYa
Antibacterial mouthwash, depending on what it is, disinfects the mouth. The antibiotics attack bacteria that enter the blood stream, preventing them from causing harm.
CDC confirms the problem with this issue
 

pellicle

Professional Dingbat
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,393
Location
Queensland, OzTrayLeeYa
Oh it’s spread far beyond the 50 states. It’s infected countries on at least three continents, maybe more.
I'm quite sure you're right, Australia has its fair share ... I understand the best census is undertaken daily on Facebook, with many performing the "self assessments" ...

:)
 

normofthenorth

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
862
Location
Toronto, ON, Canada
I've just spent some time Googling "Listerine" and it's Essential Oils ingredients and "bacteria" etc. in various combinations, and I've turned up a number of supportive publications in refereed journals - and also a recommendation from the ADA to add Listerine to brushing (and flossing). None of them showed benefits limited to the reduction of bad breath.
There are also in vitro studies that show that Listerine kills many important disease-causing bacteria in a test tube, and others showing decreased serum levels of bacteria and others (and a metastudy or two) showing improved health outcomes.
The improved health outcomes I saw studied were more focused on periodontal disease than endocarditis, but I think the scientific literature is strong enough to embarrass the gang here that attributes the beneficial effects of amber (essential-oil) Listerine to Dunning Kruger, AKA ignorance.
BTW, I am an MIT graduate and short term Mensa member long ago. Hardly a professional health researcher in this field (just an interested "valver"), but well into the 99th percentile in both tested intelligence and scientific literature. Easily capable of reading most scientific studies. FWIW.
 

Keithl

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
249
The hospital gave me a small bottle of Listerine the night before surgery to use the night before and morning of surgery. There are some decent reports about the germs in the human mount, but there are also some reports talking about the good bacteria in the mouth that get killed with mouthwash. I error on the sire of rinsing every night for at least 30 seconds.
 

vitdoc

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
60
Location
Southern Ca.
It is extremely hard to sterilize the human body. A study showed that even after betadine was applied to the surface of the human eye bacteria could still be cultured. Clearly there was an enormous reduction in the number of bacteria but they were not completely eliminated. Mouth wash does not contain antibiotics just some topical agents. So probably there is a reduction in bacteria directly after the use of mouthwash but I would not count on that for anti bacterial prophylaxis. I love the Dunning Kruger disease article. I have said for years that you don't know what you don't know. Here is to the internet and Dr. Google for helping increase Dunning Kruger all over the world. Expertise is not perfect but generally better than the alternative.
 

pellicle

Professional Dingbat
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,393
Location
Queensland, OzTrayLeeYa
It is extremely hard to sterilize the human body. A study showed that even after betadine was applied to the surface of the human eye bacteria could still be cultured.
Indeed, I recall reading that after surface sterilization that bacteria like propionibacteria (recently renamed) were identified in swabs from around the surgical site within a few hours. It conjectured that it was impossible to sterilize the deep pores (where many live) and that they were just recolonizing the surface.

With respect to teeth my dentist has suggested to me that the issue is the amount of bacteria sub-gingival in biofilms and plaque which simply can not be addressed prior to a "dental clean". So for those at risk anti-biotic prophylaxis is the best go to.

887147


:)

PS: which I suppose is "yet another" reason to avoid redo surgery if at all possible because its longer and therefore increases your exposure to bacteria and infection. (gosh, as if I'd know)
 
Last edited:

ejc61

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 24, 2010
Messages
265
Location
Kennesaw, GA
I had my endocarditis event 5 years ago. For a period of 6 weeks, run a fever, take oral antibiotics, finish antibiotics fever returns, get blood culture but a took antibiotic and skewed results, after second blood culture weeks later, infection confirmed 12 mm vegetation. Admitted to hospital and under care of infectious disease doctor and my cardio. Around the clock IV antibiotics, rocephin and a 6 week supply to bring home. After 3 weeks, vegetation reduced to 5 mm. All is good. a few weeks later after my last dose and over a course of a few days, I pull up lame. Wound up in hospital needing an arterial thombectomy and because heparin didn't work for me that day, a 3 compartment fasciotomy. One week in the hospital. Left the hospital with another 6 week supply of daptomycin, a cane and a walker. Used that damn cane for a good 6 months. My mitral valve has some scarring but pretty much ok.
 

Latest posts

Top