When Meds Bite Back

[Superbob]

Thought I would pass this along as a caution to closely watch any unintended consequences of meds, including supplements.

I have mentioned my busted knee (have had an MRI and go to orthopedist next Tuesday to see if he thinks I need surgery). Anyway, my GP suggested I try Osteo Bi-Flex, the OTC glucosamine/chondrotin supplement that possibly helps joint health. He said, oh by the way, it might affect your blood sugar somewhat. (I am type 2 diabetic.) My orthopedist later told me he uses glucosamine supplement himself.

Okay, so I've been trying it. And now I am seeing my morning blood sugar on a steady climb, hit 160 this morning (should be below 120) -- even though I've been following the dietary guidelines for type 2s pretty well. Just now I did some surfing and found a Mayo Clinic advisory that glucosamine's adverse effects on blood sugar is suspected, and type 2 diabetics probably shouldn't take the supplements.

Soooooooo, I am shelving these glucosamine supplements. Not too long ago, I had to quit a niacin-based cholesterol medicine because it, too, was spiking my blood sugar.

I guess my point is that all these pills we swallow may help us with some problems, but the chance exists that they can make worse some other problem. We have to do what we can ourselves to monitor it, because the docs can't do it all for us. In some cases, we have to decide what problem should take priority. In my case, controlling blood sugar is a top priority.

 

[Cooker]

Sorry this happened....I know it was helping... but it's not worth sugar problems!!

 

[EireCara]

Bob, I completely agree with you.

I know for definite that certain anti-biotics, Nexium (for stomach problems) and anti-depressants cause my irregular hb to become much worse.

I think its probable that 'every' pill we take cause side effects, some trivial and some potentially serious.

Best wishes.

 

[terryj]

Thanks for the info. I started taking Glocosamine about 2 months ago for my knees and I am also a type 2 diabetic and my blood sugar has been slowly on the rise. 135 this morning.

 

[Superbob]

Thanks for the info. I started taking Glocosamine about 2 months ago for my knees and I am also a type 2 diabetic and my blood sugar has been slowly on the rise. 135 this morning.

Sue,

That's what I kept noticing -- a slow but steady rise. Then it finally got to a high-enough point that I didn't think I could risk it anymore. I just don't know what else could be causing the rise -- guess now I will watch, and see if it gradually goes back down, and that will be a pretty good indication that the glucosamine was causing it.

I guess this is a good reminder that we should keep checking our sugar numbers as a daily routine. I had mine under pretty good control, so I hope to get back to there.

Jacqui and Cooker, thanks also for your input and support.

 

[Mary]

This is totally off the thread subject, but I hope Jimmy Olson won't mind.
I'm impressed with your avatar and the new profile line.
Clever way to use your alter ego, Superbob!

 

[Bina]

I'm always nervous about taking OTC products and "herbals" etc. because of possible interactions and reactions.
One of my friends has a shelf full of "naturals" that she is always recommending, "thanks, but no thanks."

 

[Marguerite53]

My husband will take anything. And everything he takes seems to affect him in a positive way. So he never understands why I balk at things....I'm soooooooooo sensitive to everything.

I have knee problems as well. The glucosamine did a different thing to me (I am not diabetic). Because some mixtures come from the shell of shrimp (ever read the label....advising all who have shellfish allergies to be careful! ) maybe it has a lot of salt in it. I tossed mine out several years ago so because what it did for me was make me puff up everywhere. It's supposed to help assist the body to cushion the cushions in the knee (promoting joint health by keeping the cushioning agents full of the fluid they need to be cushiony). Well, all it did for me was help me gain weight and retain fluids! Not healthy.

Bob. The Syn-Visc.....get the shot......try it........ please!!!!!

Marguerite

 

[Superbob]

This is totally off the thread subject, but I hope Jimmy Olson won't mind.
I'm impressed with your avatar and the new profile line.
Clever way to use your alter ego, Superbob!

Thanks, Mary. Fortunately, can always run into a phone booth and become the caped superhero again. -- If only Superbob can find a phone booth -- they're going out of existence, it seems.

 

[Superbob]

My husband will take anything. And everything he takes seems to affect him in a positive way. So he never understands why I balk at things....I'm soooooooooo sensitive to everything.

I have knee problems as well. The glucosamine did a different thing to me (I am not diabetic). Because some mixtures come from the shell of shrimp (ever read the label....advising all who have shellfish allergies to be careful! ) maybe it has a lot of salt in it. I tossed mine out several years ago so because what it did for me was make me puff up everywhere. It's supposed to help assist the body to cushion the cushions in the knee (promoting joint health by keeping the cushioning agents full of the fluid they need to be cushiony). Well, all it did for me was help me gain weight and retain fluids! Not healthy.

Bob. The Syn-Visc.....get the shot......try it........ please!!!!!


Marguerite,

I agree, it seems these supplements affect us all in different ways -- sometimes in a positive way, but too often not so positively.

I remembering what you and others advised on the knee shots, and I promise not to be a wimp again if the option comes up. I am looking forward to his analysis of the MRI film, which I've had sitting here for two weeks now. I'm still all for non-surgical options, but will see what his analysis is.

As always, appreciate your good advice.

 

[tobagotwo]

Some Thoughts about Medications and Supplements

Some Thoughts about Medications and Supplements

Some thoughts about medications and supplements...

Any medication or supplement that is effective enough to make a positive change in your health is also effective enough to make a negative change. That doesn't mean that it will, or that if it does, the negative change will outweigh the positive one, but it does mean you should be on the lookout for it.

Many medications and supplements take time to manifest their benefits. They can also take time to show their detrimental effects. Don't think that because you've been taking a prescription or supplement for a few days and you haven't keeled over that the concern time has passed. If you see changes even weeks or months after beginning a compound, you should still suspect the contents of your medicine cabinet. One example: some beta blockers can cause psoriasis in some patients. It often takes months for it to show up significantly, and frequently doesn't become noticeably advanced until the drier, less daylit, winter months.

Many medications and supplements work indirectly to achieve their effects. As such, their negative effects may seem entirely unrelated to the medication. One example: a certain class of antibiotics can cause problems with your tendons.

Talk to your pharmacist about possible side effects, not just your doctor. If you feel you may be having a side effect from a medication, and your doctor's office says not to worry about it, go to your pharmacist. There are many cases on this site of people who've been assured by their doctors that their prescriptions were not causing their problems, who later found out that the medication was indeed the problem. Your pharmacist is much more knowledgeable about prescription drugs than your doctor, and has better tools to investigate them.

Take some proactive responsibility for yourself concerning prescriptions and herbs. Look up the method of action, possible side effects, and do-not-take-with lists of the drug on legitimate sites on the web, or discuss them with your pharmacist.

Don't stop without a physician's help. Many drugs have to be stepped down gradually, or dangerous withdrawal issues can surface. If you decide you really can't live with being on a particular prescription, consult with your doctor to determine how to get you off of it - then follow the plan.

Remember that it's not always the medication. Most medications work for most people with little or no noticeable side effects. Medicines for more serious diseases tend to have more side effects, but may be necessary to effect a cure. It's important to weigh the side effect against the good being done.

Best wishes,

 

[Susan BAV]

It's a good reminder Bob. And the other Bob too . And Bina, I agree with the way you worded your opinion on that also; I have some well-meaning friends who think that whatever pill or herb or homeopathic thing that has helped any of their various issues, including their "heart problems," can help any of my various issues and/or my "heart problem." But my personal feeling is that I'm just not comfortable experimenting with most stuff like that because of possible interactions and reactions, etc.

 

[Superbob]

Good point, Susan and Bina (and the "other" Bob. I guess the lesson for all of us is just be careful with the supplements and realize that even if they do some good, there is the potential for doing something bad as well.

 

[Guest]

Years ago I worked with an occupational health nurse. Her daughter was training for a marathon and started taking Glucosamine/Condroitin. She advised her daughter to watch her liver enzymes because Glucosamine/Condroitin can raise cholesterol levels.

 

[PairoDocs]

From Pairodocs-Laura

Just some info for you all...
Glucosamine/chondroitin made an old medical school buddy a millionaire. A physician by the name of Jay Theosidakis (I never remamber exactly how to spell his name because he was named "Theo" to all of us) published a book called "The Arthritis Cure" some years back touting the use of glucosamine and chondroitin. It has really helped a lot of people! And, although it can elevate blood glucose somewhat, it can also lower blood sugars if the person is able to be more active. Activity levels have more effect on blood glucose than even some diabetic medications.

In a patient with a history of heart or circulatory problems, (almost all diabetics and certainly people with OHS) exercise is the trump card. It is the preferred treatment for those with diabetic neuropathy. It adds years to your life, has many beneficial effects. So, if you garner many benefits with the glucosamine/chondroitin, then use it! As with coumadin, your medications can be adjusted for your lifestyle and diet, and if you are able to exercise and lose weight, well so much the better.

There are some other alternatives for people with joint problems which are not supposed to mess with your sugars. Knox (the gelatin people) has a bone and joint formula not made with glucosamine and chondroitin. Plain ol' gelatin has helped some folks. MSM has been known to help, but caution in people with sulfa allergies. Hot peppers, chili pappers, and derivatives have been known to help (cayenne, capsaicin), but act slightly as blood thinners, so watch your PT/INR. SAM-e is supposed to help with joint problems, as well, but it isn't something that you should discontinue suddenly if you've been using it for awhile. Don't forget the boron (in apples) for bone and joint strength.

There's a lot more , but space is limited. There is always Lourdes!

Joint problems are the pits, so I hope you all can get to feeling better.

Nice day in Idaho despite the smoke from California,
-Laura

 

[Superbob]

Laura,

Thanks very much for this useful info. It seems to be true that the glucosamine supplements are helping some people. It's just that for some there can be impacts that are not so good -- as with blood glucose levels. Stepping up the exercise would be great, but right now I have a blown-out knee that may require surgery, so it is hard to be increasing exercise at the moment. Hopefully after all that's resolved, I will be able to exercise more intensely -- and maybe I'll even try the supplement again at that point.

Thanks again for the informative post.

 

[Duff Man]

Amen to the thread subject Bob. Some of the side effects of medications are hard to notice or correlate... especially when taken every day.

 

[Superbob]

Amen to the thread subject Bob. Some of the side effects of medications are hard to notice or correlate... especially when taken every day.

Thanks, Aaron. One of our members (forgot the name) humorously used the old DuPont advertising slogan, "Better Living Through Chemistry," to describe the pill-popping many of us have to do or are advised to do. Unfortunately, the side-effects or interactions sometimes can make living worse. My experience is that we have to try to ride herd on this ourselves. My blood sugar seems to have started slowly coming down now that I've stopped the glucosamine.

 

[aussigal]

Fancy that ....would never have thought that stuff would affect your blood sugar levels...it wasn't cheap either so you now have 2 good reasons not to buy it again!...

I used to go to hydrotherapy and there were alot of not-so-young people with dodgy knees exercising them in the warm water...they reported increased movement and strength. Just thought I would mention this as another non-surgical option.

PS: I love the new avatar too!.

 

[PairoDocs]

From Pairodocs-Laura

I saw someone else recommend Synvisc. I recommend it if you can use it. I tried it when the steroid injections stoppped working (and sometimes made my blood sugar go up) as a last resort before knee replacement. It works best in those with mild to moderate damage, but I used despite being in the severe category. It actually worked pretty well for about 1 year, and then I ended up with arthroscopic surgery, which helped for awhile. The thing that helped the most was to lose weight, and that has bought me some time. It's been bone-on-bone for me for 9 years, now, but I can still walk most days. I kept my handicapped sticker for the bad days, and I keep a cane in the car just in case. I asked the orthopedic surgeon how much damage I was causing by continuing to walk on it, and there are some things that can happen (one leg shorter than the other, etc) that can be treated with orthotics, etc. However, since even the current artificial joints last maybe 20 years, I may need 2 replacements if I do it in the near future. I can't do much high-impact exercise, and I would like to go back to team sports if I can.

I tried glucosamine and chondroitin; they make me nauseous, unfortunately. I can't even use hydrocodone, as I've developed an allergy to it. It seems that over the years, I tolerate fewer and fewer meds because of allergies. I take an occasional advil for really severe pain.

Like cardiothoracic surgeons, find yourself one with a lot of experience in knee replacements.

Really warm in Idaho,
-Laura