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KristyW

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2001
Messages
475
Location
Commerce City, CO
Time for me to vent a bit. I've had quite a couple of days. My husband has a blood clot located behind his knee for the past 7 months. We didn't know he had one, but it appears that for the last 2 months this clot has been shedding parts of itself and lodging in his lungs. On Monday morning, enough material had built up in his lungs to impede the blood flow and we had an episode of him losing consciousnesses. The paramedics determined that he needed help right away (they were thinking cardiac), so he was airlifted to University Hospital here in the Denver area.

Now to the vent part. University Hospital is as it sounds part of the University of Colorado. It is one of 3 or 4 teaching hospitals in the Denver area. I encountered in the ER Drs. and nurses that said my husband would need to be on "blood thinners". I bit my tongue most of the time, but when the 3rd year resident kept calling it that I spoke up. She said that she knew that it was an anticoagulant, but patients understood blood thinner better. I didn't want to get into an argument because it really wasn't important at that moment. Once up into ICU the Internal Medicine 3rd year resident also insisted on blood thinner. This time I spoke up right away. I told him that he's not doing his patients any favor by scaring them about this drug and making them believe that they'll bleed to death from "thin" blood if they're not careful. His response was that patients find "anticoagulant" too difficult for them to remember. I asked if he could try saying anti-clotting instead? Almost everyone can understand that term. He said that he'd try. Again...this is a TEACHING hospital. Oh! Yesterday my husband was ordering lunch and he was not allowed to have a green salad because he's on "blood thinners" AAARRRGGGHHHH!!! The ICU nurse was in the room at the time. When I asked "Why they do that?", greens are so good for you. He said well, if they're not going to let your husband out until he's theraputic, don't delay that by eating things that counter warfarin. He really did have a point on that, but if this was a paitent who didn't have someone like me with them, the patient would think that they could never have things like that. He's a great guy and doesn't call our favorite rat poision "blood thinner". I asked him why so many Drs. and nurses insist on that and his response was to shrug his shoulders.

We still have a long way to go. The educators are continuing the misinformation by not calling Coumadin/warfarin by the correct term. And hospitals are still not letting the patients eat what they should. Oh well, one thing at a time I guess.

BTW, my husband is fine. He should be released sometime later today or tomorrow.
 
Kristy I know all too well what you mean. I about had a baby cow when I saw Coumadin Diet on my meal ticket and not one thing green on the dang tray. I asked my Doctor when he came in and even he threw a hissy fit and called the head dietitian up for a confrontation on the matter. His own words were, "I did not put this patient on a so called Coumadin diet. Who is responsible for that? Then he went on to drill her about denying anything with Vit k in it being served to a Coumadin patient. Long story short, she agreed on nearly everything he said, but nothing changed. I showed him my next ticket and he went ballistic, went to the nurses station, reamed them over it because seemingly no one put me on that diet, yet there it was in black and white on my meal ticket. My meals after that contained a very minimal amount of green veggies and I only had one salad for the week.

I can't believe that in 10 years, nothing has changed with these people. Not one thing.
 
Kristy -

If you want to have any impact at that hospital (or ANY other organization, including Doctor's offices), you've GOT TO GO TO THE TOP.

If the Boss doesn't endorse a change in procedure or protocol,
it's NOT going to happen.

Harping to the 'worker bees' isn't going to change anything!

Sorry, but that's just how it is.

'AL Capshaw'
 
Most important of all, I'm glad your husband is now fine!!! I agree that the word "anti-clotting" would be a good word for them to use that patients could understand and remember.
 
I about had a baby cow when I saw Coumadin Diet on my meal ticket and not one thing green on the dang tray.

I can't believe that in 10 years, nothing has changed with these people. Not one thing.

You know what's really funny? He hadn't even had his 1st dose of coumadin yet!! OMG. Well, I get him back today and we'll get him theraputic on our terms, not the hospital protocol.

Like I said above, I really do understand their reasoning in this case. The only reason they're waiting to discharge him is that he's not therapeutic yet. There's no other recovery to happen, but in other cases it's just so unnecessary.
 
Yeah but Kristy I mean come on, do you honestly think a little 2oz serving of green beans or a tiny salad is going to affect his INR so much that it sabotages him? That's what I'm driving at. Don't know about your hospital, but mine doesn't put enough on a plate for a sparrow to get full on let alone a human.

Oh yeah, forgot to tell you how I got put on the Coumadin Restricted Diet. Apparently they have a new computer system where dietitians enter the persons name and room number, it checks all the meds the patient is on, then assigns a diet for that person. GREAT MOVE huh? Wondered why I was no longer allowed to select what I wanted.
 
Yeah but Kristy I mean come on, do you honestly think a little 2oz serving of green beans or a tiny salad is going to affect his INR so much that it sabotages him? That's what I'm driving at. Don't know about your hospital, but mine doesn't put enough on a plate for a sparrow to get full on let alone a human.

Oh yeah, forgot to tell you how I got put on the Coumadin Restricted Diet. Apparently they have a new computer system where dietitians enter the persons name and room number, it checks all the meds the patient is on, then assigns a diet for that person. GREAT MOVE huh? Wondered why I was no longer allowed to select what I wanted.

You're right Ross, that little iceberg lettuce salad probably would have NO impact on his INR. As far as the computer system, like I said, he hadn't even been given his first dose, so maybe it was ordered and the system saw that. This is a brand new hospital (in this location 1 year) so all the computer systems are about as new as it gets for a hospital. My guess is that he was put on this diet exactly the same way you were. I wish that they'd just get rid of the "coumadin restricted diet" altogether.
 
We went round and round about it. Cranberry juice too! Some moron who doesn't understand ACT has now got it programmed into the computer systems to make you diet the dose. I honestly feel like were fighting a losing battle with these people. Al Lodwick is out there working his butt off trying to get the message across to the field, but I have to wonder if he doesn't feel the same way.
 
Kristy - I'm glad your husband is doing well, and I'm so glad he has you as an advocate.

These types of stories make me CRAZY!!!!! When is the US going to get into the 21st century with this.

Good suggestion on the "anti-clotting" term.
 
Thinking back to my hospital stay, I believe I got broccoli twice, and was so grateful for it.
I'm also going to use the "anti-clotting" terminology when necessary.
It's easier than explaining exactly what the coagulation process is all about.:)
 
no arugula?

no arugula?

So what really is the deal? No arugula? Just on sunny Tuesdays? Would someone tell me the basic rule of thumb you all have figured out that seems to be mysterious to doctors (and me)?
Jane
 
You can eat greens and take coumadin, no problem....but if you suddenly lost your mind
and decided to stop all greens, then you or your doctor would adjust your pill accordingly.
 
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So what really is the deal? No arugula? Just on sunny Tuesdays? Would someone tell me the basic rule of thumb you all have figured out that seems to be mysterious to doctors (and me)?
Jane

Some of these so called professionals think that a little bit of Vit K is detrimental to a Coumadin patients INR and it's BS. Let the person eat his normal diet and adjust the dose to that diet, don't diet the dose of the drug. It's getting so frustrating trying to get it through these peoples heads.
 
Some of these so called professionals think that a little bit of Vit K is detrimental to a Coumadin patients INR and it's BS. Let the person eat his normal diet and adjust the dose to that diet, don't diet the dose of the drug. It's getting so frustrating trying to get it through these peoples heads.

I hear your logic. Amazing, I am getting a grasp :). could they be trying to adjust the diet to limit the dose?
 
Ross,
I just found this statement on Al Lodwick's website. Personally I have no problem with what anyone calls this therapy as long as they know how to manage it properly.
Cameron
"and it works to thin the blood by inhibiting clotting factors"

Gimme a link, I gotta rub his nose in it! We'll see how long that stays up.
 
I hear your logic. Amazing, I am getting a grasp :). could they be trying to adjust the diet to limit the dose?

If they are, they are not managing you properly. The amount of Coumadin you take to keep you in range is the correct amount for you and your diet, be it 2mg a day or 20mg a day.
 
Clot Care site

Clot Care site

http://www.clotcare.com/clotcare/aboutwarfarin.aspx

Perhaps this will help with some of the questions being asked. To begin, may I suggest that you scroll down to the section that is entitled, "What Do I Need to Know About Diet Interactions with Warfarin."

I think that section, which is long and detailed, is a good start for folks who take the anticoagulant Warfarin (Brand name Coumadin).

The entire site is filled with information that, IMO, is worth a complete read by anyone who is on anticoagulation with Warfarin/Coumadin. With so many myths, we have to be our own advocate.

Another good place for information about this topic is the sticky at the top of the Anticoagulation Forum. (Discovery Health Anticoagulation Program) I truly believe that this should be viewed by every valve replacement patient who will/might be taking Warfarin after surgery.

Hope this helps.

Blanche
 
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