Different Alcohol Question - I Swear!

[MikeHeim]

While I was hiking on vacation last week, I was thinking about some random things and a question popped into my head. Here it is:

As I understand it, the main reason why people are told to limit alcohol intake on Coumadin is that alcoholic beverages "eat" away a persons stomach lining and can cause ulcers. Ulcers, if they begin bleeding, can be extremely difficult to stop for someone who is under ACT. My question is, doesn't the same hold for acidic beverages like Coke? I have a friend who developed some pretty severe stomach issues from drinking 6-8 sodas per day, so I know that they at least have the potential of causing ulcers as well. Perhaps alcohol is just more caustic than soda...

Anyways, I am not on Coumadin and have no real stake in the answer - but I am curious...

Thanks!

 

[Ross]

You are correct. I'm not at all convinced that alcohol is more dangerous then our beloved colas. Good subject of debate. I too, wonder about which is more caustic. Now if your pounding down White Lightning corn liquor, I'm sure you know it's the equivalent of drinking turpentine, so naturally, it's eating you up.

 

[Karlynn]

Or for that matter what about coffee? (ROSS!)

Good question Mike.

And now I'm going to use it as my excuse to continue to have my Cosmopolitans.

 

[WendyD]

We were told that many things can aggravate ulcers, spicy food, alchohol etc, but most ulcers are actually caused by the stomach bug called
Helico Bacter Pylori, which is treated with a combination of Antibiotics and Losec to control acid reflux.
You can have either a blood test for H pylori or a faecal test and in some countries they still do an H pylori Breath Test.
We still have our regular glass of wine ( everything in moderation )
Best Wishes
Wendy

 

[Ross]

Or for that matter what about coffee? (ROSS!)

Good question Mike.

And now I'm going to use it as my excuse to continue to have my Cosmopolitans.

So are you implying that because I ate half a jar of jalopenas, drink a pot of coffee, and love tomato juice and bloody marys, that I may be susceptible to this ulcer/bleeding thing?

 

[Karlynn]

So are you implying that because I ate half a jar of jalopenas, drink a pot of coffee, and love tomato juice and bloody marys, that I may be susceptible to this ulcer/bleeding thing?

You're at least susceptible to a bad tummy ache!

There's so much advertising for stomach remedies, sometimes I wonder if it heightens people's "awareness" off it to the point that now, just about everyone has a sensitive stomach.

 

[hensylee]

I had a friend whose dr told him to drink 7-up when he had an ulcer. Doesn't that have the same sort of stuff as colas?

 

[tobagotwo]

Actually, it doesn't, Ann. Unlike 7-Up, many colas have enough phosphoric acid to clean the rust off a nail overnight. Paradoxically, I'll bet you remember when coke syrup was given to people to ease stomach problems. It still seems unlikely that Mike's friend's problem was actually caused by the sodas, though. But they could aggravate an existing, underlying condition.

Alcohol is more problematic in at least three ways.

- It kllls bacteria. Unfortunately, the "good" bacteria that infest our intestines are much more susceptible to alcohol and antibiotics than Helicobacter pylorae. The more resistant H pylorae colonize the areas vacated by the good bugs, which can then lead to ulcers, acid reflux, and erosive esophogitis, with their associated bleeding, pain, and possible cancer. These are problems many valvers already suffer due to doses of preventative antibiotics for dentistry and medical procedures. (You might check with your doctor to see if it's all right to take probiotics to partially ameliorate this issue, alcohol or not.)

- It's a vasodilator (that "flushed" feeling and rosy-cheeked look you get from drinking), expanding the blood vessels near the surface of the skin, including the lung surface and stomach lining. It can also temporarily damage the blood vessel walls by breaking down the proteins in them. These expanded blood vessels, especially any "tender" ones, are prone to bleeding. At the site of a lesion, such as an ulcer, they will bleed much more easily and freely than sober veins. Over time, alcoholics do such abuse to their blood vessels and other protein-rich structures (such as the liver), that permanent damage results, such as cirrosis and the permanently broken blood vessels often visible on a heavy drinker's face.

- It makes you numb, unsteady, and stupid. When you're under the influence, you're clumsy, and can easily hurt yourself. You're numb, and don't feel pain as rapidly, enabling you to unknowingly do more damage when you do get hurt. You become stupid and do dangerous things that you would never do sober ("Hey, guys - Watch this!"). This clumsiness and recklessness, combined with flaccid, dilated blood vessels is a recipe for a major bleed.

Sodas don't have these attributes.

Because of my understanding of the affects of alcohol, I have become a member of DITIG, which is an organization dedicated to removing alcohol from liquor store shelves everywhere. The liquor is then rendered useless through personal processing, to remove its inebriating components. If anyone is interested, you can form a Drink It 'Till It's Gone chapter in your own home town. If there are enough of us, the manufacturers won't be able to keep up...

Best wishes,

 

[Karlynn]

Because of my understanding of the affects of alcohol, I have become a member of DITIG, which is an organization dedicated to removing alcohol from liquor store shelves everywhere. The liquor is then rendered useless through personal processing, to remove its inebriating components. If anyone is interested, you can form a Drink It 'Till It's Gone chapter in your own home town. If there are enough of us, the manufacturers won't be able to keep up...

Best wishes,

What a selfless organization to be involved in. Thank you for your committment to our nation's health.

 

[PJmomrunner]

Lmao!
......................................................................................................

 

[mtkayak]

Because of my understanding of the affects of alcohol, I have become a member of DITIG, which is an organization dedicated to removing alcohol from liquor store shelves everywhere. The liquor is then rendered useless through personal processing, to remove its inebriating components. If anyone is interested, you can form a Drink It 'Till It's Gone chapter in your own home town. If there are enough of us, the manufacturers won't be able to keep up...

Best wishes,

I think we would be better served to remove cigarettes from the shelves of our stores if anything. I can't think of one benefit it provides. On the otherhand, alcohol does have some health benefits if it's consumed in moderation. Two drinks a day defines this for people under 65 and 1 drink for people over 65.

This from the Mayo Clinic:

Health benefits
Moderate alcohol consumption may provide some health benefits. It may:

Reduce your risk of developing heart disease, peripheral vascular disease and intermittent claudication
Reduce your risk of dying of a heart attack
Possibly reduce your risk of strokes, particularly ischemic strokes
Lower your risk of gallstones
Possibly reduce your risk of diabetes

To remove alcohol from stores sounds absurd. It sounds like a Christian Coalition Group telling us how to live our lives.

 

[tobagotwo]

It was a long time ago that I "personally processed" tobacco. I don't have any desire to do so again. Besides, where's the fun in that?

To be clear, the Drink It 'Till It's Gone organization is a figment of my pump-addled mind, intended only to be tongue-in-cheek humor. I've added an emoticon to clarify that.

To your point, the effects I described in the earlier post are far more pronounced when you drink too much alcohol. While people do have different levels of tolerance or sensitivity, most people who consume alcohol in moderation (similar to what you described or less) would not be likely to have any lasting effects from their libations. People who are on ACT should probably err to the side of caution, but if they are sure they have no ulcers or intestinal lesions, I don't think they run too much greater of a risk.

Best wishes,

 

[DrAllan]

I?ve never met a patient that ?just had a question? about alcohol without a personal or family relation with a problem.

The irritation of the stomach from toxic chemicals is called ?gastritis?. Whether the damage from alcohol, tobacco, coffee, coke, tea or chocolate is worse than another is open to debate.

The major concern about alcohol and Coumadin is that alcohol is metabolized in the liver. The conversion of vitamin K to the active oxidized form also occurs in the liver and Coumadin blocks this transformation. The liver when faced with both reactions to deal with preferentially detoxifies alcohol at the expense of making clotting factors. Hence, alcohol changes the expected response to Coumadin. Aside from all other confounding factors of Coumadin, such as exercise, normal gut bacterial synthesis of vitamin K (affected by alcohol as well) and about 10, 000 other things (ok, I?m exaggerating) alcohol is a difficult drug to manage for the patient on ACT.

Bottom line, the consumer of alcohol will continue. Stop looking to this site for justification for what is truly an addiction.

This answer is not intended as and does not substitute for medical advice - the information presented is for patient education only. Please see your personal physician for further evaluation of your individual case.

 

[mtkayak]

It was a long time ago that I "personally processed" tobacco. I don't have any desire to do so again. Besides, where's the fun in that?

To be clear, the Drink It 'Till It's Gone organization is a figment of my pump-addled mind, intended only to be tongue-in-cheek humor. I've added an emoticon to clarify that.

To your point, the effects I described in the earlier post are far more pronounced when you drink too much alcohol. While people do have different levels of tolerance or sensitivity, most people who consume alcohol in moderation (similar to what you described or less) would not be likely to have any lasting effects from their libations. People who are on ACT should probably err to the side of caution, but if they are sure they have no ulcers or intestinal lesions, I don't think they run too much greater of a risk.

Best wishes,

Oppps, my apologies, in all my hast I missed the emoticon. Sorry, it's a knee jerk reaction here in the "Bible Belt" where alcohol is not sold on Sundays. I'm sick of everybody labeling alcohol as the "evil doer" when it fact it's the people who comsume it that need to take more responsibilty with it.

 

[Guest]

7-UP was originally sold as an aid to digestion and some people still believe that it is.

Coke syrup is not very acidic. When it is carbonated it becomes acidic Carbon Dioxide + water = Carbonic Acid.

 

[Granbonny]

Mike's thread was started about members taking Coumadin/Alcohol.....since it got a little off topic..I was just saying to my hubby the other day..how many elderly,retired people are in our local package Store....whenever we have been there or when we pass by. this is a large retirement area...and I'm talking about seeing them buy the hard stuff. ....Average age 70 and up..these are well-dressed, driving expensive cars , ect.and very healthy looking people...Not the cheap wine type people....I have also noticed when I dump my trash. many expensive empty wine bottles. .... I enjoy a few beers during the week and Hubby has a few Bourban drinks before dinner. the expensive kind. George Dickel.and he just turned age 76.with no health problems. ..didn't mean to get off track..Just cannot see the difference in people on anti-depressants, sedatives, ect.which doctors are quick to put them on..compared to having a few alcoholic drinks?If they (drinks) relax them.. I have seen it for many years. at least 40..where people have condemed me/hubby for having a few alcohol drinks and knowing they were on some type of good feel drug?Are they not as addicted? ....Ready for the flame back replies. Bonnie

 

[Mary]

Mike's thread was started about members taking Coumadin/Alcohol.....since it got a little off topic..I was just saying to my hubby the other day..how many elderly,retired people are in our local package Store....whenever we have been there or when we pass by. this is a large retirement area...and I'm talking about seeing them buy the hard stuff. ....Average age 70 and up..these are well-dressed, driving expensive cars , ect.and very healthy looking people...Not the cheap wine type people....I have also noticed when I dump my trash. many expensive empty wine bottles. .... I enjoy a few beers during the week and Hubby has a few Bourban drinks before dinner. the expensive kind. George Dickel.and he just turned age 76.with no health problems. ..didn't mean to get off track..Just cannot see the difference in people on anti-depressants, sedatives, ect.which doctors are quick to put them on..compared to having a few alcoholic drinks?If they (drinks) relax them.. I have seen it for many years. at least 40..where people have condemed me/hubby for having a few alcohol drinks and knowing they were on some type of good feel drug?Are they not as addicted? ....Ready for the flame back replies. Bonnie

No flaming here, Bonnie! I've mellowed since surgery, decided there was no reason not to have some wine a few nights a week (no coumadin usage), and have started enjoying a glass of port after more than 20 years of not drinking.
The only side effect I've seen is a two pound weight gain--OUCH!

 

[Karlynn]

My children were so shocked to find that once they went to college I started keeping a bottle of vodka and a bottle of spiced rum in my freezer. To them, it meant I was "boozin' it up" every night. I explained to them that the mear fact they were away at college allowed me to keep the alcohol in my freezer. Had I done it when they were in high school, I suspect I'd find bottles of frozen water and tea where the vodka and rum were supposed to be.

I used to have a glass of red wine about every night of the week. Until red wine, just one glass, started giving me a horrible headache. Now I'll have a rum and diet coke, or a vodka and OJ 3 or 4 nights a week. I don't look at it as dependency on something to make me feel good at all. It's just a little guilty pleasure my husband and I enjoy. Now if I was having 4 or more each night, I'd be concerned.