Patient survey New patient education video Facebook Twitter www.onxlti.com
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 161

Thread: Drinking while taking Warfarin(Coumadin)

  1. #1
    Nick Yuki Guest

    Smile Drinking while taking Warfarin(Coumadin)

    I have a little problem, which may be so important for some of you, I think.
    I underwent surgery on the heart last year. Now my aortic valve is mechanical. As most of you do, I have to take Warfarin everyday after supper. Inconvenient, but it is alright. Until the day I die, I probably keep taking it.
    Well, the problem is alcohol. As a matter of fact, those who take Warfain should not drink more than two cans of beer, I suppose. Those who don't like to drink can live with the fact alright. But, like me, people who love to drink to get drunk, they feel bad about it. Emptiness. Stress. Sorrow. Without liquor is like without music, I should say. In truth, however, to be honest, I have never drunk any alcoholic bevarage since the surgery. I feel that to drink would cause something awful.
    I'd like to know what other Warfarin takers do when they want to drink.
    Is there any other stimuli that make me at east again? For a Warfarin taker, of course. I would like to know what you are doing

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Hi Nick,

    I can relate to what you say. The general rule with warfarin and
    alcohol is to be careful. Some say this means you can have 2 drinks,
    otherīs canīt have any, some can drink more. Some find it useless
    as they do not want to mess up their INR once it is steady.

    I think you always have to be careful and try to find your level and
    avoid getting drunk at all times and if you drink some, be sure to be
    consistent so that your dose will be adjusted around it.

    But in general you have to accept the fact you will have to drink
    moderately. I missed the feeling of having a few drinks(too many?),
    but once you know how warfarin works, you canīt relax drinking too
    much anyhow, so I guess the problem solves itself.....

    Cheers!

    /
    Martin

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    snowy - Sharpsburg, Ga USA
    Posts
    11,635

    Default

    Nick, this subject is often discussed in VR. If you search 'alcohol', you should find several threads that you can read. Good luck.
    Ann
    My philosophy:
    No matter where you are, who you are with, what you are doing, enjoy every moment, every day. Blessins.........

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    1,333

    Default

    Hi Nick,

    Just thought I would share a few thoughts on this topic.

    First... the "2" drink rule. This rule is a standard rule promoted by the American Heart Association. This rule has nothing at all to do with whether or not you are on Coumadin. It is the standard. Any doctor will tell you that "2 drinks a day" is the rule or guideline for any healthy individual.

    http://www.americanheart.org/present...identifier=581

    But if you have heart disease.. then you may find this of interest also.

    http://www.americanheart.org/present...dentifier=4422


    Personally.. I limited myself to 2 drinks per day at first.. but not anymore. I test my INR weekly and for the most part it is stable, and I adjust my dosage if needed to bring me back into range. I have not had any problems or issues in 5 years. ( my doctor once said.. "Managing Coumadin is a matter of consistency.. So.... if you are going to drink.. Drink consistently" Perhaps a little tongue and check.. but.. he does have a point... !

    Lifting my glass to you and good health,
    Rob

    The only thing I did notice is that if I go on vacation and drink alot, MY INR will most likely be around 4.5 when I return.
    3/23/00 Ascending Aortic Dissection-St. Judes mech valve+graft, Vanderbilt, Nashville, TN
    9/16/10 ON-X Aortic Valve/Root Replacment, Cleveland Clinic,OH, Dr Pettersson
    9/16/10 Aortic Stent and Frozen Elephant Trunk Procedure, Cleveland Clinic,OH, Dr. Roselli

  5. #5
    William Guest

    Default

    Nice info Rob! I too like to drink and at times, drink more then 2 glasses a night. Do you test your INR at home? Will

  6. #6
    McCln Guest

    Post Nick

    Good that you are not drinking now. Consistancy is very important in INR management. I drink every once in a blue blue, so to speak. I very rarely drink more than one drink, since the alchol disease runs rampant in my family, both side. So it is up to you how much you drink, if any. Do not feel bad about pulling back in drinking, probably better for you and the liver anyway. When you drink in excess, it can hurt your body. My father died from complications, unclear to this date. He had heart disease, diabetes, perhaps other health problems that was not helped with excessive drinking. So, do what you want on the drinking. I just choose to drink lightly, if ever. Welcome to the boards.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Posts
    1,025

    Default

    I have wine with dinner three to four evenings during the week.
    On weekends I am a "social drinker". Sometimes that is two drinks, sometimes it is six. My doctor doesn't have a problem with this.
    I enjoy drinking alcohol, particularly a good Merlot.
    This evening I am sitting here on my fourth glass of wine watching the Masters golf.
    Earlier this afternoon I rode 25 hard miles on my bike in training for my next triathlon. I'm in better physical shape than 99% of my "healthy" friends, so having a few drinks doesn't concern me very much.

    Mark
    "It doesn't get easier, you just get faster" - Greg LeMond


    Mark U in Sarasota. FL
    Congenital Bicuspid Aortic Valve
    27mm St. Jude, 12-15-00

  8. #8
    brendamarlene Guest

    Default

    Since my surgery 6 weeks ago, I have not had any liquor at all. Or spinach or broccoli, for that matter. I wanted to get my coumadin level straight before I started indulging. And my INR had been so low I was really scared.

    Here is my question: If liquor raises the INR and Vitamin K lowers it, why not have wine with a spinach salad? They would cancel each other out?

    Is there a big difference of the effect of wine vs. hard liquor vs. beer on the INR?

  9. #9
    Barry Guest

    Default

    Nick, I come from a long and distinguished line of alcoholics, and as you apparantly do, enjoy binge drinking. In a weird way going on Coumadin/Warfarin was a blessing in disguise - very well disguised, I might say - since I've got to limit my drinking to a couple of drinks now.

    If I answer your question of alternatives to booze that you can do while on Coumadin, I'll likely get banned. Sorry.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    1,100

    Default No alternatives!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry

    If I answer your question of alternatives to booze that you can do while on Coumadin, I'll likely get banned. Sorry.
    Anybody with half-a-brain who has controlled or uncontrolled chronic A-fib has no business messing around with "alternatives" if he values his heart health!
    The first child and the fifth patient to survive heart valve replacement surgery. 51 years and counting since my first HVR!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Pueblo, Colorado
    Posts
    3,677

    Default

    The real problem with alcohol is not the increase in the INR, it is the irritation to the lining of the stomach. The two drink rule is more to prevent this. If the irritation causes a tiny spot of bleeding the warfarin may help it to become a significant bleed. The amount you can consume is up to the individual. I suspect that if your stomach ever feels upset after drinking, then you are approaching the bleeding stage.

    It really speaks a lot about human nature that we are talking about two sets of guidelines - the INR and alcohol. Many people use the word spiked for an INR that it barely above the range, but nobody uses the word spiked for doubling the recommended amount of alcohol. How can we be so strict about one and so casual about the other when they are just two different ways of preventing the same tragedy?
    Al Lodwick, R.Ph.
    Certified Anticoagulation Care Provider
    [URL=http://www.warfarinfo.com]Go to my website for warfarin information[/URL]

  12. #12
    Barry Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RCB
    Anybody with half-a-brain who has controlled or uncontrolled chronic A-fib has no business messing around with "alternatives" if he values his heart health!
    Question of whether one is going to fool around with so-called "alternatives" is a separate issue from identifying what they are. One speaks to action, the other to information. It is common in our society to put limits on what one does; that's what laws are about.

    But it seems that we are increasingly putting limits not just on what one is allowed to do, but also on what one is allowed to know.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    1,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry
    Question of whether one is going to fool around with so-called "alternatives" is a separate issue from identifying what they are. One speaks to action, the other to information. It is common in our society to put limits on what one does; that's what laws are about.

    But it seems that we are increasingly putting limits not just on what one is allowed to do, but also on what one is allowed to know.
    Sorry Pal, but as everyone that does have half-a-brain knows, the culture that knows about "alternatives" does so not because of the pursuit of knowledge, but rather for consumption of said "alternatives". No matter
    how much you attempt to rationalize your "research" it has no place on a forum which is devoted to promote a heathy heart. There are many ways to poison a heart, they don't need to be listed on this site. Anyone who tries to make a mockery of this site by so called "discussion", "research", "seeking knowledge" of more and better ways to harm the heart- has not the best interest of this site or its members. Only a fool would argue that amounts to "limiting what one is allowed to know". Don't lay that BS on me- I won't play that stupid game.

    PS Barry- I won't reply to this thread anymore because to do so is highjacking
    and discussing it further is like fighting in the mud with a pig- the pig enjoys it too much and all one gets is dirty, especially if one suspects the pig might be under the influence of "alternatives."
    The first child and the fifth patient to survive heart valve replacement surgery. 51 years and counting since my first HVR!

  14. #14
    Barry Guest

    Default

    "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." (John 8:32).

    As RCB points out, this is a highly inappropriate opinion that has since been over-ruled to ensure that people don't do stupid things.

    I guess I'm outta here. I have an inherent tendency to stir up controversy, and that's not a good trait to have around here.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    1,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William
    Nice info Rob! I too like to drink and at times, drink more then 2 glasses a night. Do you test your INR at home? Will
    Hi William,

    Yes I test at home on a weekly basis.

    Regards,
    Rob
    3/23/00 Ascending Aortic Dissection-St. Judes mech valve+graft, Vanderbilt, Nashville, TN
    9/16/10 ON-X Aortic Valve/Root Replacment, Cleveland Clinic,OH, Dr Pettersson
    9/16/10 Aortic Stent and Frozen Elephant Trunk Procedure, Cleveland Clinic,OH, Dr. Roselli

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    On The Hot Seat
    Posts
    25,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brendamarlene
    Here is my question: If liquor raises the INR and Vitamin K lowers it, why not have wine with a spinach salad? They would cancel each other out?

    Is there a big difference of the effect of wine vs. hard liquor vs. beer on the INR?
    Alcohol can affect your INR either way. Some people it rises, some it falls, but the big thing is possible GI bleeding in some. If your going to drink alcohol, limit yourself to 2 drinks. Don't try to play juggle the foods, it won't work. In other words, No it won't cancel each other out.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    upstate New York
    Posts
    9,897

    Default

    Just want to mention one thing, please, please people be protective of your liver. Those with congestive heart failure can develop a condition called cardiac cirrhosis which destroys your liver, scarring it up very much the same as other types of cirrhosis does, although the initial start is different.

    Many of the medications you are taking depend on metabolism by the liver, including Coumadin.

    If you have pulmonary hypertension, your liver becomes a VERY important organ, since some of the easiest to take and best medications need a healthy liver.

    If you have to drink, moderation and self limitation is the way to go. Stopping would be even better.

    You have been given a second life, so to speak. Take good care of it, and good care of your body. It's only a body, and is not indestructible.

  18. #18
    Barry Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RCB
    Sorry Pal...
    Second thoughts...

    Despite your difficulty maintaining a civil tone, you do raise a question that does deserve an answer: What will folks do who are given accurate information regarding "alternatives"? They'll do one of two things:
    1. Abstain; or
    2. Use in a way that incurs the least harm.

    This vastly reduces the possibility of option #3: Use without knowing the risks and hurt yourself.

    We have long since adopted a harm-reduction approach with alcohol e.g. public information about the hazards of drinking during pregnancy, laws against drunk driving, etc. Many posts here are devoted to determining levels of drinking that reduce the harm it can cause with Coumadin on board. Because giving information to reduce the harm of risky behavior (with the exception of drinking for some reason) is so often misconstrued as endorsing the risky behavior, it's one of the things I don't do here for fear of angering folks.


    Nick, to answer your original question:

    Did you used to be a party animal who drank a lot? Because, if so, you simply may not have yet learned how to have a good time when sober. Give yourself some time. There's a principle in psychology called "state dependent learning", whereby recall of a task is enhanced when you're in the same pharmacological state you were in when you learned it. If you learned how to party, how to hang out with the guys, how to ask a woman for a date, etc., etc., etc., always with a few brews on board you're going to have to re-learn how to do that stuff sober. Give yourself some time.

    If you continue to feel out of sorts, you may want to consider seeing a shrink. Some folks who drink a lot are self-medicating for an underlying disorder, usually a mood or anxiety disorder.

    But what meds are you on? Some meds have lousy side-effects. For example, Beta-Blockers, a common heart medication, are fairly notorious for leaving folks feeling out of sorts.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,685

    Default

    Barry:
    When you replied that you were "out of here." I thought it was a shame. Now, I wonder. I think you put people down by inneundo. And, I think you do it on purpose. You know, you could back off just a bit. We accept differences here, but it appears you have a need to get even here and that concerns me. I agree with RCB. You both get dirty, but the pig likes it.
    Blanche

  20. #20
    Nick Yuki Guest

    Smile Thank you, folks!

    I really enjoyed reading your opinions and the information above. All of them are very helpful and precious. Thanks.
    I think, as some of you have told me, I won't start drinking again owing to my liver.
    As Nancy says, 'be protective of your liver', I've got to be protective of my liver too. There's only one liver in my body. I don't think it's a good idea to destroy it. As you see, I don't think I'll be content with two or three drinks. I would drink more if I was allowed to.
    I am on Warfarin, so no doctor (nobody ) will allow me to drink like a fish. To tell you the truth, I knew I couldn't drink like I used to. But I wanted to know the other Warfarin users are doing.
    I've been trying to get a new job. I feel stress, big one, under these circumstances. As you easily imagine, it's hard to get a good job in Japan these days, even if one has a good education. That's why I just started thinking of alcohol, which I had decided not to think of.
    One of you pointed out that I'd been a party animal. Nothing like that. I was like an alcoholic. I drank alone Music and alcohol. I have to get used to being sober while listening to music, you know. Must live with the fact that I won't ever be able to get inebriated.
    Well, I've got a partner who understands me. She supports me, mentally. And if this lust for liquor keeps on bothering me, I suppose I'd better go see a shrink, who might have the answer for my problem.
    But, again, you guys are very helpful. Had it not been for your information, I should still have been wondering what the others were doing.
    Viva non-alcoholic beer!
    Thank you all.
    Love.
    Nick Yuki.

  21. #21
    Barry Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Yuki
    ...As you see, I don't think I'll be content with two or three drinks. I would drink more if I was allowed to...
    As you noted, you had an alcoholic's pattern of drinking. One of the problems with learning to drink moderately - that makes it impossible for some folks - is that alcohol disinhibits you as it literally anesthetizes the frontol lobles of your brain. You know that resolution you made to have only a couple of drinks? That resolution is in the frontal lobes of your brain, and as they become anesthetized, so does that resolution.

    There's an axiom in AA, an organization comprised of folks with this problem, that speaks to this: "One drink is too many, and a dozen isn't enough."

    PS As you learn to enjoy music without a few drinks on board, you may want to avoid drinking songs! BTW, I'm a music freak, too, tastes running to blues, jazz, and obscure folkie ethnic music. How quiet our homes must have been before recordings and radio were invented!

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Pueblo, Colorado
    Posts
    3,677

    Default

    There is a strong cultural component, too. We lived 6 years on the Navajo Reservation. One of my friends told me that part of their problem was that they had no history of having a drink to be sociable. Historically they made small amounts of intoxicating beverages but it was essentailly introduced with white culture. The idea was always to get the Indian drunk. The idea persists today. When a Navajo has a drink it is with the idea of starting to get drunk. Few of them grasp the idea of having one or two drinks and then going home.
    Al Lodwick, R.Ph.
    Certified Anticoagulation Care Provider
    [URL=http://www.warfarinfo.com]Go to my website for warfarin information[/URL]

  23. #23
    Karlynn Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allodwick
    When a Navajo has a drink it is with the idea of starting to get drunk. Few of them grasp the idea of having one or two drinks and then going home.
    Being a mother of 2 college students, that seems to be the college mindset as well.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Pueblo, Colorado
    Posts
    3,677

    Default

    When Arizona was being organized as a state they moved the capitol from Prescott to Phoenix. As a consolation prize to Tucson they put the University there. One saloon owner who had high hopes of a lot of business from state legislators made one of the dreat understatements of all time. "I'm ruined. College students don't drink beer."
    Al Lodwick, R.Ph.
    Certified Anticoagulation Care Provider
    [URL=http://www.warfarinfo.com]Go to my website for warfarin information[/URL]

  25. #25
    Mary Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Karlynn
    Being a mother of 2 college students, that seems to be the college mindset as well.
    It was my college mindset! I went to a Catholic university in the early 70's and drinking/getting drunk was part of the curriculum. I drank enough during those four years to last a lifetime. I also smoked like a fiend.
    I gave them both up once I started having children. It seemed like a much more worthwhile pursuit.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •