Cbd ?

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Now that it's legal I was wondering if CBD is safe taken for pain and if anyone knows how it affects INR. It comes in liquid drops. Scared to experiment without some input. It is not for a 'high' and doesn't contain that ingredient. Anyone ???
 
I did a quick search online and apparently CBD may also be a blood thinner and. as such, does interact with warfarin. The info I saw says to use CBD with warfarin only under the supervision of a knowledgeable MD.
 
Guest about CBD.

I was on Warfarin following my two valve Tissue replacement for about 3 months. I opt for medical edible marijuana and CBD oil capsules for pain and to relieve stress and anxiety . I asked the folks that were test my blood results and advised them of what was doing. My readings were 2.0 to 2.5 consistently. I am no longer on Warfarin but it didn't interfere with my numbers. But I would ask your doctor and the those who test your blood. Being in Washington State were pot is legal they were aware of the question. good luck...
 
Brad G.;n881284 said:
Guest about CBD.

I opt for medical edible marijuana and CBD oil capsules for pain and to relieve stress and anxiety ..
I've had a couple of glasses of wine, so you will have to excuse the outrage that follows. OK, here goes (ahem) Weeeeeeeed.
 
You see, after so many years of consuming marijuana and many other products made out of marijuana, I can tell you that CBD oil is probably the best kind of product! Moreover, I would say that it is the least harmful product actually. I have been consuming CBD oil for the last couple of years, and I can tell you that it is really amazing, and it is way better than smoking marijuana! However, I still have my glass smoking pipe as sometimes I still prefer to take a couple of grams for a good smoke :D.
 
I don’t have warfinin my after care with the biological valve. Consequently, I cannot speak to that issue.

I can speak to my CBD experience though.

I love the CBD products. I started using them for the after surgery blues and when I started doing cardio type workouts in addition to the yoga my knees did not like it much. Probably because I didn’t have the best form doing squats, lunges, and all that etc on my own during Covid.

I especially like the salves for muscle aches joint pain (like my knees) . I find particular brands work better for me than others. The most expensive is not necessarily the best. Sometimes the more locally manufactured ones are good. Others I found were not so great.

Recently, I tried capsules with specific formulas from a longtime company for stress and another for sleep. I find the sleep one works better than the melatonin prescription that was started by Cleveland when I could not sleep in the hospital.

for me, stil, there is nothing quite as good as the pipe. But, my state is still dithering on medical marijuana. CBD is a decent substitute, but it takes some shopping around.

I think that Washington State has the best brands, I think. But, they do not ship out of state unfortunately.

I wasn’t sure if saying the brands I like is ok or not ok on here. I am happy to share that here but for a change, decided to ask first rather than beg forgiveness later 😎
 
You see, after so many years of consuming marijuana and many other products made out of marijuana, I can tell you that CBD oil is probably the best kind of product! Moreover, I would say that it is the least harmful product actually. I have been consuming CBD oil for the last couple of years, and I can tell you that it is really amazing, and it is way better than smoking marijuana! However, I still have my glass smoking pipe as sometimes I still prefer to take a couple of grams for a good smoke :D.
I am also more into cbd, however sometimes I really want a good smoke!
 
Still, it is better to consult a specialist to use a new drug. The CBD oil helped me a lot during the aggravation of anxiety. But it was good in a critical moment
 
Still, it is better to consult a specialist to use a new drug. The CBD oil helped me a lot during the aggravation of anxiety. But it was good in a critical moment
Regular consumption of delta 8 chewables, which I was suggested to take through the website tillmanstranquils.com, is enough for me. But I see how much the use of cannabis in medicine has advanced, that they are prescribing it more and more often. Steaming CBD oil has been a lesson for me. If you don't smoke, you shouldn't take it. My body refused to take such a product.
 
I am often sore from gardening and working out so I was looking for a cream or roll on to use since Tylenol wasn't working. The pharmacist said the CBD roll on I picked out was fine. I used it a couple of times a day for a week and my INR went from 2.1 to 2.9. The cardiologist's office questioned the increase and since I had not changed my diet I tossed out the idea that it was the CBD roll on. They shot that idea down but I didn't use it the next week to see what happened and my INR went down to 2.0. So for me personally it increases my INR. If I use it a lot I'll just increase my K intake to keep myself in my range.
 
Hi

They shot that idea down but I didn't use it the next week to see what happened and my INR went down to 2.0. So for me personally it increases my INR.

ok, well one of the fellas who I am working with in his INR management has had similar things happen and for no apparent reason.

If I was incautious I'd be jumping on the view that this apparent rise in INR (from cranberry juice) was caused by taking cranberry juice ..

1657069983481.png


.. right up until the last measurement when it suddenly fell.

So I'd be cautious about making assumptions on one off situations. I'd do at least 2 or 3 controlled examples to rule out coincidence

1657069797944.png


anything else isn't science its accidental data or cherry picking data.

If I use it a lot I'll just increase my K intake to keep myself in my range.

you'll need a lot more than you may think
https://www.valvereplacement.org/threads/bleeding-issue.888328/page-5#post-917223
My view is that if the usage is going to be short term then a slightly elevated INR for a small duration is basically so close to no risk its not worth worrying about.

1657069925253.png


Best Wishes
 
PS:

the CBD roll on

did some further readings:

About the product (here):

CryoFreeze roll on is a topical cooling cream that comes in a hands-free roll-on. The paraben free cream contains Cannabidiol (CBD), Menthol, ...

this publication (found here):

Characterization of Cytochrome P450 3A Inactivation by Cannabidiol: Possible Involvement of Cannabidiol-Hydroxyquinone as a P450 Inactivator

Department of Cellular and Molecular Pharmacology and Liver Center and Department of Biopharmaceutical Sciences, University of California, San Francisco, California 94143-0450 Received March 27, 1998

C Orthologues of these P450s are also found in human liver microsomes, and CBD can inactivate human P450 3A4, which is responsible for metabolizing more than 60% of clinically prescribed drugs....

further this article clarifies that there may indeed be something in CYP3A ...

https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ben/dml/2010/00000004/00000004/art00004
Effective Coumadin (R/S-warfarin) therapy is complicated by inter-individual variability in metabolism. Recent studies have demonstrated that CYP3A isoforms likely contribute to patient responses and clinical outcomes. Despite a significant focus on CYP3A4, little is known about CYP3A5 and CYP3A7 metabolism of warfarin. Based on our studies, recombinant CYP3A4, CYP3A5 and CYP3A7 metabolized R- and S-warfarin to 10- and 4'-hydroxywarfarin with efficiencies that depended on the individual enzymes. For R-warfarin, CYP3A4, CYP3A7, and CYP3A5 demonstrated decreasing preference for 10-hydroxylation over 4'-hydroxylation. By contrast, there was no regioselectivity toward Swarfarin. While all enzymes preferentially metabolized R-warfarin, CYP3A4 was the most efficient at metabolizing all reactions. Individuals, namely African-Americans and children, with higher relative levels of CYP3A5 and/or CYP3A7, respectively, compared to CYP3A4 may metabolize warfarin less efficiently and thus may require lower doses and be at risk for adverse drug-drug interactions related to the contributions of the respective enzymes.


importantly (from MIMS):

The clearance of R-warfarin is generally half that of S-warfarin, thus as the volumes of distribution are similar, the half-life of R-warfarin is longer than that of S-warfarin. The half-life of R-warfarin ranges from 37 to 89 hours, while that of S-warfarin ranges from 21 to 43 hours.

however since S warfarin is five times more potent an anticoagulant than R warfarin (citation) its probably not going to be significant. So there maybe a case that it could increase your INR by interaction with that metabolism pathway.

As always, I go back to "test and know thyself" as my personal recommendation.

I never do understand why everyone on warfarin who is of sound mind is not self testing (and preferably self managing.

Best Wishes
 
Last edited:
Hi



ok, well one of the fellas who I am working with in his INR management has had similar things happen and for no apparent reason.

If I was incautious I'd be jumping on the view that this apparent rise in INR (from cranberry juice) was caused by taking cranberry juice ..

View attachment 888662

.. right up until the last measurement when it suddenly fell.

So I'd be cautious about making assumptions on one off situations. I'd do at least 2 or 3 controlled examples to rule out coincidence

View attachment 888660

anything else isn't science its accidental data or cherry picking data.



you'll need a lot more than you may think
https://www.valvereplacement.org/threads/bleeding-issue.888328/page-5#post-917223
My view is that if the usage is going to be short term then a slightly elevated INR for a small duration is basically so close to no risk its not worth worrying about.

View attachment 888661

Best Wishes


That is proof positive! Lock up Nicolas Cage asap for causing the drowing deaths of all those people. At the very least he will not be able to make any more films and this will bring drowing deaths down to a very low level! :ROFLMAO:
 
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