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the futility (and pointlessness) of worrying about diet WRT INR

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  • the futility (and pointlessness) of worrying about diet WRT INR

    tonight is a case in point. I cooked a (very nice thankyou) dinner of Satay Pork with Basmati rice (in tumeric). I had 3 glasses of red wine and am having a glass of brandy after dinner now as I type this.

    So in dinner was :
    Spinach : which could reduce INR
    Tumeric : can reduce clotting by platelet influence
    Alcohol: can increase INR
    Pork: no effect, but tastes great
    Garlic : keeps vampires away
    Ginger : just taste

    my point is this ... if you're on warfarin, and you're new to this (us "oldies already don't give a rats arse about it) don't stress on diet just eat a balanced diet, eat what you want and enjoy life

    monitor your INR and as long as you're "inside the range" don't give a shit about if you've gone up or down 0.3 INR points

    Best Wishes

  • #2
    I hear human flesh tastes a lot like pork. Good thing I don't have a high INR, during my current home reno I sliced my finger with a razor ( needed a couple stitches and some glue) 2 weeks ago, cut the same hand with a holesaw today, smashed it with a hammer. My poor left hand is starting to look like Mickey Rourkes face....

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by cldlhd View Post
      My poor left hand is starting to look like Mickey Rourkes face....
      Which reminds me, have you seen the movie where he's a wrestler and has heart surgery?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by pellicle View Post

        Which reminds me, have you seen the movie where he's a wrestler and has heart surgery?
        Yes I've seen it.

        Comment


        • #5
          On this subject
          Originally posted by cldlhd View Post
          I hear human flesh tastes a lot like pork.
          Pigs are in many respects quite genetically simmilar to humans. For instance we learned in the first year of biochemistry that before we synthesized human insulin that pig was favored over bovine because "Pig insulin differs from human insulin by only one amino acid"
          (Ref)

          I guess it also depends what you feed them before eating them...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by pellicle View Post
            On this subject


            Pigs are in many respects quite genetically simmilar to humans. For instance we learned in the first year of biochemistry that before we synthesized human insulin that pig was favored over bovine because "Pig insulin differs from human insulin by only one amino acid"
            (Ref)

            I guess it also depends what you feed them before eating them...
            I'll have to keep that in mind.....

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by pellicle View Post
              tonight is a case in point. I cooked a (very nice thankyou) dinner of Satay Pork with Basmati rice (in tumeric). I had 3 glasses of red wine and am having a glass of brandy after dinner now as I type this.

              So in dinner was :
              Spinach : which could reduce INR
              Tumeric : can reduce clotting by platelet influence
              Alcohol: can increase INR
              Pork: no effect, but tastes great
              Garlic : keeps vampires away
              Ginger : just taste

              my point is this ... if you're on warfarin, and you're new to this (us "oldies already don't give a rats arse about it) don't stress on diet just eat a balanced diet, eat what you want and enjoy life

              monitor your INR and as long as you're "inside the range" don't give a shit about if you've gone up or down 0.3 INR points

              Best Wishes
              I read your posts and I am inspired to include every leaf in my diet. I have a peculiar case here, I am on acenocoumarol (Acitrom) which has a much shorter half life (8 hours) than warfarin (40 hours). I was just curious as per your experience, how long after eating spinach does INR starts getting impacted? I would want to understand when should I adjust my dose- the day I eat spinach, the following day or both days or till couple of days after I eat spinach. It's almost winter time here in India and green leafy vegetables are the only seasonal veggies available in abundance. Thus, I want to have a general understanding.
              - Henna
              MVR (St. Judes Mechanical) April 2017

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi
                Originally posted by HennaD View Post
                I read your posts and I am inspired to include every leaf in my diet.
                so you're inspired to gather evidence to determine if my above is correct or wrong? Excellent! That's the spirt!

                I have a peculiar case here, I am on acenocoumarol (Acitrom) which has a much shorter half life (8 hours) than warfarin (40 hours).
                I know of it and expcted that (you being in India) ... that drug should be off the market if you ask me ...

                I was just curious as per your experience, how long after eating spinach does INR starts getting impacted?
                as I wrote above it doesn't ... not in any way which can consistently be shown to be a causal effect.

                I can't find the post I made here quickly so (before this editor times out) here is the notes made when I was assisting TheGymGuy here to lower his INR prior to a procedure. Pay attention specifically to the amounts. ... go get that amount and look at it ... note also that he stopped his warfarin too

                Day 1. No Coumadin.
                11am 2.6 INR
                12pm 400g of raw blended spinach
                4pm 2.3 INR
                4:30pm 150g or raw blended spinach
                10pm - INR 2.3 (measured twice) no change.
                10pm - another 400g of fresh blended spinach
                Off to sleep - Note: in 24 hours consumed - 1000g of fresh spinach
                Day 2. No Coumadin.
                8am 1.8 INR
                9pm 1.4 INR
                Day 3. No Coumadin.
                9am 1.2 INR.

                I would want to understand when should I adjust my dose-
                you should ONLY adjust your dose when you see a trend in INR drop over more than a week (I assume weekly testing)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by pellicle View Post
                  tonight is a case in point. I cooked a (very nice thankyou) dinner of Satay Pork with Basmati rice (in tumeric). I had 3 glasses of red wine and am having a glass of brandy after dinner now as I type this.

                  So in dinner was :
                  Spinach : which could reduce INR
                  Tumeric : can reduce clotting by platelet influence
                  Alcohol: can increase INR
                  Pork: no effect, but tastes great
                  Garlic : keeps vampires away
                  Ginger : just taste

                  my point is this ... if you're on warfarin, and you're new to this (us "oldies already don't give a rats arse about it) don't stress on diet just eat a balanced diet, eat what you want and enjoy life

                  monitor your INR and as long as you're "inside the range" don't give a shit about if you've gone up or down 0.3 INR points

                  Best Wishes
                  Sorry to burst your bubble; however, ginger can affect INR. Like yourself I know a balanced diet is the way to go and don't believe diet has that much influence on my INR. Can't remember whether the ginger influence increases or decreases the test result.
                  Mitral Valve Replacement Surgery, 1999
                  Home test weekly since January 2004-Coaguchek S
                  October 2006-Coaguchek XS
                  INR managed by anti-coagulation clinic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lance View Post

                    Sorry to burst your bubble; however, ginger can affect INR.
                    No bubble to burst. My regular stance is regular testing.

                    Ginger had not surfaced in my testing, if it has in yours, well now you know (except you don't seem to be sure)

                    Test and know thyself.

                    As you will see if you read above I enouraged the poster to question and find their own answers. To question, to gather evidence and see for themselves.

                    When testing the results of foods and INR , always perform your experiments more than once. Just because you had a cup of Jasmine Tea one day and found your INR elevated the next does not mean the tea caused it ... it may have just been a coincidence. Repeat the test again on another occasion ... and if you are testing weekly how will you be sure that your only change in your entire metabolic system was "bit of ginger".







                    So again, no bubble to burst, test and learn about your self, as it may not be the same for others...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I agree with pellicle. I have not seen contents of food affecting my INR much, and it is Indian food full of spices. I test weekly. I now eat whatever i want without thinking about INR. Quantity of food does affect INR though. Less food(20-30%) for few days increases INR a little. I have observed this consistently.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pellicle View Post



                        I know of it and expcted that (you being in India) ... that drug should be off the market if you ask me ...

                        I know, I intend to switch to warfarin shortly as I was warfarin before my surgery. Only God and Pharmaceutical commercials know why my surgeon put me on Acitrom instead of warfarin.

                        Originally posted by pellicle View Post

                        as I wrote above it doesn't ... not in any way which can consistently be shown to be a causal effect.

                        you should ONLY adjust your dose when you see a trend in INR drop over more than a week (I assume weekly testing)
                        I have been self moderating my dosage on days I eat greens which have higher content of vitamin k. For example, if I am eating spinach today and my regular dose for today is 3mg, I take 4 mg (just to be on the safer side) and repeat the following day. Not sure now after reading these notes, whether I should do that. I will try to avoid self moderating my dose this week and see the impact.

                        Yes, I am testing weekly (waiting for my coagucheck XS, for now weekly draws at the lab).

                        - Henna
                        MVR (St. Judes Mechanical) April 2017

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HennaD View Post
                          Yes, I am testing weekly (waiting for my coagucheck XS, for now weekly draws at the lab).
                          contact me if you want to discuss methods of data analysis of your results

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Before I started Warfarin, I decided to enjoy eating spinach whilst I still could. I honestly believed I would never eat spinach again after starting Warfarin. I actually went through a bit of a grieving process. You may laugh, but it was a big deal at the time.
                            Bicuspid Aortic Valve. Moderate Aortic Valve Stenosis. Ascending Aorta: 4.1cm
                            In the waiting room.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree that diet makes little difference to my INR, and I eat what i like, making occasional small "course corrections" to my Warfarin dose when needed.

                              What DOES affect my INR is:
                              • Having a cold (no idea why)
                              • Loose bowel movements (or diarrhoea) - which I can understand, affecting what has been digested
                              Both of these can be quite dramatic, and I am glad that I test weekly.
                              Mechanical aortic valve replacement, CABG x 1 and pacemaker, Sept 2014, at age 49. Insulin dependent diabetic.

                              Comment

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